Once again, a quick look at Google reveals that lots of people ask questions around the subject of “BT master socket wiring orange white” (Really? OK Google, we’ll believe you).
It looks to us that the whole area of phone socket wiring and cables confuses folks. We thought we’d blog and hopefully bring some clarity. Believe me, it’s not that complex.
Meanwhile, if you don’t think you’re going to find what you want here, please don’t leave just yet!
Take a look at our “blog of blogs” which gives a list of most of what we’ve written on common problems, but under topic headings.
Back to those wires. It’s not that complex (did I say that already?)
First of All, Don’t Let The Wires Scare You.
Most people look at a cable or socket, gasp, and say “spaghetti”. However, there is (or should be) a logic to the cables and colours. The purpose of this blog is to give not just guidance, but reassurance. A tangle of coloured wires will have a pattern somewhere, trust me. It may just take time to sort them out. Don’t let them put you off.
“Pairs”. Pair Them Off to Simplify
A good place to start. In each cable, internal or external every single wire will be part of a pair. In BT-standard internal wiring, the blue wire with the white band around it should be matched with the white cable with the blue band. The orange and white with the white and orange, and the green/white with (fill in the blank…). Having done this, you’ve already started to impose some order. Hurrah!
So Many Pairs – Which Ones Should I Use?
Well, functionally, they are all the same, and you could use any of them, in any sequence you choose.. Please don’t!
Non-standard use of wiring is an engineer’s nightmare. There are “conventions” just to make life a bit easier, and make fault-tracing quicker. Think of them as road markings. You could drive anywhere you want, but keeping left and giving way, controlled by lines, is not restrictive, just plain old common-sense applied to make life easier. In the UK, our road-markings are consistently the same, so we all know how to behave. Some rules are not restrictive, but liberating.
Colour and Order
If you are faced with multiple colours, then use in the following order.
Blue/White – White/Blue (probably the only one you’ll ever use!)
Orange/White – White/Orange
Green/White – White/Green
Brown/White – White/Brown
Grey/White – White/Grey
Therefore, in most home installations, where sockets are connected to each other by a single pair, you will only ever use the first “blue” pair.
Is That All?
No, sadly, it isn’t. For some reason, the cable running into your house will be of a different colour scheme. Don’t ask me why. It just is.
From a Pole using what is known as “drop wire” (stiff, with black sheath I’ve written about it already here) the colours (solid colours – no bands) are:-
Orange-White
Green-Black
BT Dropwire Telephone Cable
There will also be three “span wires” in the cable, either yellow or white in colour. These exist simply to carry weight and should not be connected. They will be noticeably springier than the copper cables. Caution! The ends are sharp.
Therefore, typically, at the back of your master socket, the orange-white pair will be connected, the green-black lying spare and disconnected.
Up From A Hole
If your telephone service arrives via an underground cable like this:-
Then the colours are still blue-orange-green-brown-grey BUT, they don’t have a “band” around any of them. Therefore, coming out of the ground into your property will be five different solid-coloured cables with five identical plain white cables. Oh dear. How do you tell them apart?
The Twist – Slightly Technical Stuff
Each pair of wires will be twisted together with it’s partner. Underground cable is usually filled with Vaseline-type jelly, which helps them stick together. Hopefully, whoever installed the cable will have left enough spare cable in the socket or external box to leave the cables paired up in a twist to make this relationship clear.
If not, assuming your telephone line is “live”, and you are faced with several unidentified white cables, simply use a multi-meter to check for the 50V DC voltage passing between the live pair. When the meter shows a reading, then you’ve found your live pair.
Just When Things Were Settling Down…
Around 2012, Openreach introduced new colours to the former BT-specification cable described above. The blue/white-white/blue simplicity was replaced with solid colours. Why?
Someone has blamed accountants, as solid colours are cheaper to produce than banded colours. Ironically, the colours used are the same as those used by BT forty years ago (No- we don’t get it, either).
Here’s the new order, mainly for domestic internal and black external cable..
Blue-orange
Brown-green
Like the underground cable, it is likely that they are twisted together.
If It All Gets Too Much…
An independent engineer can help sort out the occasional horror. Just occasionally, Googling “bt master socket wiring orange white” might not lead you to the right advice to sort out your cabling mess. Most engineers deal with “mess” day-in, day-out. Welcome to my world.
I am based in North-East England, but network with engineers across the UK. Here’s the deal – I might be able to find you an engineer in exchange for a review on social media (providing you value the free information and “find an engineer” service.
Your explanation is the best I have found! Thank you.
I have an old cottage with wiring used and unused everywhere including telephone extensions. I am trying to reduce all the surface wiring.
The wires that are connected into the house are the Orange and White only. They connect onwards to first extension to the Blue/white cables only. They are joined by crispers.
At the first old connection box they are joined by crispers again to onward blue/white cables.
My question is: Does it matter which blue/white cable is attached for the onward extension? The reason I ask is that I will be removing most of the extension wiring nearly back to the incoming wiring ( cannot do it all the way) and need to make sure before I start.
Any advice would be welcomed.
Regards
Hello,
The blue/white pair is used by convention as the first in any multi-pair cable. This makes life easier for tracing. However, I have encountered all kinds of weird combinations in houses. They generally still work, but slow tracing work down.
Start from the incoming orange/white and check you get a tone throughout the cable run. Don’t have too many runs as they simply attract interference and slow the broadband service down. Only fit the bare minimum, and make use of cordless phones to give a service to remote rooms.
Cheap tone-tracing devices are available from eBay/Amazon and make tracing easier in challenging situations.
What do you mean by “crisper”, by the way?
I hope that this helps.
which way is the bt plug numbered? Is the spring clip side 1 or 6?
very nice otherwise.
Clip on the right, pins 1 to 6 reading from the left. Most are 2 and 5. Some line cords do, however, complicate matters at the phone end – it is possible to terminate 2 and 5 correctly, but still not have a working phone.
Hi Rob, just wondering if you can help……..I have Googled, but there are pages and pages of conflicting info, and I’m getting a bit confused with it all.
Just had Sky broadband installed, and Openreach engineer installed a new Master Socket in my garage, disconnecting the old master socket that was installed upstairs (townhouse, integral garage downatsirs, lounge upstairs).
From the drop cable, I have solid Blue coming in to terminal A, and White / Blue bands coming in to terminal B.
All good so far, however I have an old rotary phone (706F) I want to use in the garage (mancave), but I can’t get it to dial out or to ring, which I was assured was working fully at its previous owner’s property (BT phone line).
There is a dial tone when you pick up the handset, and if you ring the landline then pick up the handset you can hear the other person talking (although it doesn’t ring).
The other person cannot hear you speaking.
When you start to dial out on the rotary, after each number, the dial tone remains, and eventually changes to an “engaged” style tone.
Just wondered if you had any worldly wisdom to assist me with this, very frustrated trying t find answers on Google.
Thanks in advance, and thanks for a great article.
Carl Hobbs.
Hello,
Thanks for your kind comments.
This may be one of the rare situations where the “bell wire” may be required. This attaches to pin 3 on the master socket and pin 3 on a slave socket, (one equipped with a ring capacitor).
From what you have described, I wonder if your exchange supports rotary dialling (I will make some enquiries with some of my heritage equipment sages about this)
Update 1:- Telewest, Virgin and TalkTalk exchanges do not support rotary equipment. Most BT/Openreach exchanges should, but not for much longer. There is a gadget called a”Rotatone” which converts rotary signalling to tones.
Update 2:- It has been suggested that, if the action of pressing the “hook” rapidly breaks the dial tone, the exchange might accept pulse dialling. However, the general consensus is that your exchange does not accept pulse dialling, although that used by the previous owner did. The ring issue is mysterious, as the phone contains a ring capacitor anyway. Try connecting the bell wire between the number 3 pin. More information also to be found here:- https://www.britishtelephones.com/pstconv1.htm By the way, are you suing a plug-in broadband filter?
Rob
Hi Rob, BT Openreach are digging up roads & pavements to install fibre optic on the estate. After complaining to Sky about slow broadband, a BT engineer knocked on the door & informed he had cleared all the faults on the external line. He then came in looked at the Sky set up & said we needed a new BT master socket. This has “Master Socket 5C” on it. Telephone line & broadband plugged in & everything seemed fine. However my upstairs telephone is not working. It’s an old Telewest master socket with white to “A” & blue to “B”. Any help appreciated.
Hello,
It is possible that he has not reconnected the wires that fed the upstairs socket. Strictly, when they change a master socket, they don’t have to reconnect anything on the “customer” side.
The good thing about the 5C is that you can connect extension wires without using tools. Find the terminals marked 2,3 and 5 behind the front cover of the socket and pop the appropriate wires to upstairs into 2 and 5. Order does not matter. No need to strip the cable – just pop it in as far it will go, then push down the clear plastic clamp.
I have blogged somewhere on the site about the NTE5C.
If you are still struggling, then let me have your postcode, and I’ll see if one of my independent engineer contacts is close by. Rob.
Hi rod can you help me please brought a house and the wires to the telephone from outside the house is colour’s white,yellow green black inside house blue and white blue is terminal a and white is b but I don’t no that colours from outside goes to a and what colours go to b can you help me please
Hello,
Orange and white are usually the first pair used on the incoming cable. After this, green and black. Either pair could be in use.
Internally, blue/white and white/blue are used.
It does not matter which way round the cables are on terminals A and B. The orange could go to “A”, and the white to “B” or vice-versa. Likewise on 2 and 5, the blue/white can go on either.
Plenty of help on the blogs listed here:-
https://telecomgreen.co.uk/home-phone-repair/an-index-of-telecomms-help-moving-a-master-socket-and-other-stuff/
If you need a local engineer, let me have your postcode.
I hope that all this helps.
Rob.
Thanks Rob!
No problem. A short Google review is always appreciated, as it helps me to continue giving free advice. Rob.
Hi Rob, fellow North Easterner here with a few questions. I’m currently creating an ethernet network by running cat6a cables from the underground bt cable where it enters the property in the garage to the master socket and from a faceplate next to the master socket which will be connected to my router via rj45 plugs up into my loft to connect a network switch to my router in the kitchen and then spur off to bedrooms and office also via cat6a cables, now, my incoming bt underground line doesn’t match any of your examples, the original internal wiring was connected to a blue wire and a white wire so I have connected my cables to these and onto the master socket, broadband works albeit a max of 6mbs(which is what is was before) and the phone works, I have a master socket 5c v4 but what I want to know is do I just use the blue and white of my cables to connect to my network switch ie replicating the original link cable from where the bt cable comes in and goes to the master socket or do I need to connect all 4 pairs of cat6a cable to connect from my router to the network switch to provide the network switch with a broadband signal from the router? Also I can’t see where to attach a picture of my original BT line coming in to show you it, is it possible to continue this conversation via email? I’m based un North Shields, not sure how Borth East you are but if your local I’d love to have you check my network and provide some constructive criticism!
Kind regards
Chris.
Thanks for your detailed posting. I am involved with my daughter’s wedding reception this weekend (including today), so have limited time to give a thoughtful reply. I hope to respond over the weekend. I am based in Eaglescliffe, but travel throughout The North East and U.K. Thanks for your patience. Rob.
Hi Rob, fellow North Easterner here with a few questions.
>Hello.
I’m currently creating an ethernet network by running cat6a cables from the underground bt cable where it enters the property in the garage to the master socket and from a faceplate next to the master socket which will be connected to my router via rj45 plugs up into my loft to connect a network switch to my router in the kitchen and then spur off to bedrooms and office also via cat6a cables,…..
>You are using Cat6a to extend Openreach’s cable to your property? How are you jointing this? How are you dealing with the earthing requirements of Cat 6a?
…now, my incoming bt underground line doesn’t match any of your examples, the original internal wiring was connected to a blue wire and a white wire so I have connected my cables to these and onto the master socket, broadband works albeit a max of 6mbs(which is what is was before) and the phone works, I have a master socket 5c v4 but what I want to know is do I just use the blue and white of my cables to connect to my network switch ie replicating the original link cable from where the bt cable comes in and goes to the master socket or do I need to connect all 4 pairs of cat6a cable to connect from my router to the network switch to provide the network switch with a broadband signal from the router?
>Hopefully I have understood you correctly – The filtered broadband service is delivered via the A and B pins on the filtered faceplate. Connection can be made to this, and the other end terminated on the blue/white pins on an RJ45 socket. Your RJ11 router cable will fit an RJ45 quite well, and this can provide the connection to your router, filtered at the master socket.
Also I can’t see where to attach a picture of my original BT line coming in to show you it, is it possible to continue this conversation via email?
>Yes. rob.govier@telecomgreen.co.uk. Please send JPEG attachments, not embedded images.
I’m based un North Shields, not sure how Borth East you are but if your local I’d love to have you check my network and provide some constructive criticism!
>I am in Eaglescliffe. Visits are chargeable, sadly!
Kind regards
Chris.
Hi Rob great explanations one question though unfortunately o have recently found a silent hacker on my pc I have tried everything from security antivirus to changing WiFi password. I’ve come to conclusion it has something to do with the Tel wire, now the rj45 coming into the WiFi router had only two internal wires orange and blue not six from master skcket what reason could there be for this ?
Thanks for your kind words.
I’ve never heard of hacking going on via a router cable (or any other type). Most router cables with the smaller (RJ11) plug have only two wires.
A good anti-virus programme, such as Bitdefender, should be able to find hacking malware on your machine.
I hope that this helps.
Rob.
Hi, not sure if my first comment got through – problem with javascript.
I have a very very old twin socket installed by the former BT engineer who owned my house before. I want to replace it with a 5C master scoket and a Mk 4 filtered faceplate. The cable at the top of the page is what I have and looking at what I can find, I see I only need the blue pair of wires. At the moment I have:
Blue with white bands connected to pin 2 and
White with blue bands connected to pin 5.
From what I can see I need to connect
White with blue bands to A and
Blue with white bands to B
Is that correct or am a total numpty?
Thanks.
That sounds about right (colours on A and B, not the “numpty” bit… 🙂 )
Diamond thank you. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Well it worked! I have increased connection speed as well by 50%…from 0.5 Mbps to 0.75 Mbps.
Thank you for you advice
Super! Thanks for letting me know.
If any of this on-line content and help has been useful, feedback is always welcomed.
https://goo.gl/maps/p1n9wxi5T6p
http://www.facebook.com/telecomgreen
twitter.com/phone_engineers
Hi I am trying to rewire a bt master and have a white cable coming into the house so which goes to A and which to B
Hello,
Is this from a pole or from a hole?
From a pole, this is likely to be the orange and white pair, which can be attached in any order to A and B.
From a hole, this may be the plain white and plain blue pair. Again, the polarity is not important.
Of course, we don’t officially condone anyone modifying Openreach’s cabling network,of which this is a part…. 🙂 (…but…)
Rob
Hi,
I have an ‘up from the ground’ phone wire that comes up from a pipe in the ground and goes through the wall into my house. (in this pipe there is also some blue rope which can be pulled out to about 1-2m long until it gets stuck). Many of the wires look severed though I’m not sure if that is how they should be? My question is a little less technical than some….would it be possible for the pipe the wire comes out of to be an entry point where a mouse could get inside my house? The hole the wire goes through into the wall is too small but I wondered about the pipe. Thank you
Hello, the pipe is probably a grey plastic BT duct that runs to a pit in the street. The blue rope is a drawer rope for installing new cables. It is highly unlikely that vermin would be able to crew through it and burrow into the house.
Thank you for your reply
You’re welcome. The duct is heading away from the house, which gives another layer of protection. The only possibility of rodent ingress would be if the duct was damaged/uncoupled when installed, and the rodent tunnelled out of the break and into an underfloor void. It would have to find a break in the footings. Only a persistent mouse, inspired by reading “The Great Escape” would attempt it, but might die of old age before managing to break through.
The wire is coming into my lounge by the window the outer cable is white and has 6 wires to choose from. I think but cant remember stupidly but had a feeling that the blue wire with white dash and white wire with blue dash are attatched to B and the orag=nge with wite dash and white with orag=nge dash are attatched to A. Does that sound right?
Sorry forgot to mention it’s coming from a pole along the house and through a hole by my lounge window.
Hello,
This sounds like standard CW1308 cable colouring, namely that the blue/white-white/blue are the first normally used, then the orange pair, then the green. I have blogged elsewhere about wiring colours and their variations. I would try each pair in turn. Sometimes, home-owners fiddle with the cable, mix up the colours, and make life very hard who work to the normal conventions of cable use. This is one reason why some engineers won’t get involved with domestic work…
Hi there,
Thanks firstly for providing this valuable resource. I have a question which I can’t find an answer to even after several hours of research. This article comes near, but not quite!
BACKGROUND
a) I have an 4-month old NTE5c socket which BT replaced after finding a wiring issue (corrosion) on the previous master
b) Prior to the fault, my (TalkTalk) router was installed on an extension socket in another room to optimise WiFi coverage in the house, and worked fine
c) The engineer vaguely alluded to a possible intermittent fault on the extension wiring although he only checked from the master. He advised moving the router to the master socket, which I did. I had to install Powerlines for the Ethernet connections in the other room as a result
d) The arrangement has proved unsatisfactory for various reasons and I set about moving it back. During the process, I found that the router now had no Broadband connection at all, from any extension in the house, with or without dangle filter (I understand it does not need one with the NTE5c)
e) I removed the NTE5c backplate and found that the W/O, W/G and G/W wires are disconnected. So the only wires running from the master socket to the extensions are B/W, W/B and O/W. Phones on the extensions work perfectly as they should.
f) My belief is that the BT engineer (rightly or wrongly) cut the W/O, W/G and G/W wires which I understand would have been previously connected. I also believe this is now preventing Broadband from being available on the extensions.
g) Both extensions have all six wires connected (G/W=1, W/O=4, W/G=6).
INTENTION
I want to extend the data from the NTE5c to the extensions. My understanding is that I need to connect two of the three unused wires to the clear plastic camlocks on the rear of the faceplate. That will provide filtered Broadband to the extension sockets.
QUESTION(!)
Which two of the W/O, W/G and G/W wires should I connect to the data terminals on the NTE5c?
A long preamble to a short question! I wanted though to be as comprehensive as I could. Your input would be hugely appreciated. Thanks.
Thanks firstly for providing this valuable resource.
>Thank-you.
I have a question which I can’t find an answer to even after several hours of research. This article comes near, but not quite!
BACKGROUND
a) I have an 4-month old NTE5c socket which BT replaced after finding a wiring issue (corrosion) on the previous master
b) Prior to the fault, my (TalkTalk) router was installed on an extension socket in another room to optimise WiFi coverage in the house, and worked fine
c) The engineer vaguely alluded to a possible intermittent fault on the extension wiring although he only checked from the master. He advised moving the router to the master socket, which I did. I had to install Powerlines for the Ethernet connections in the other room as a result
d) The arrangement has proved unsatisfactory for various reasons and I set about moving it back. During the process, I found that the router now had no Broadband connection at all, from any extension in the house, with or without dangle filter (I understand it does not need one with the NTE5c)
>The NTE5C only provides filtered broadband via it’s RJ11 socket, or terminals A and B. It blocks it going to any voice extensions connected to 2 and 5
e) I removed the NTE5c backplate and found that the W/O, W/G and G/W wires are disconnected. So the only wires running from the master socket to the extensions are B/W, W/B and O/W. Phones on the extensions work perfectly as they should.
>FYI, you only need the “blues” on 2 and 5, unless you specifically need the “bell wire (3)” to make a phone ring.
f) My belief is that the BT engineer (rightly or wrongly) cut the W/O, W/G and G/W wires which I understand would have been previously connected. I also believe this is now preventing Broadband from being available on the extensions.
>See my reply above re ADSL output.
g) Both extensions have all six wires connected (G/W=1, W/O=4, W/G=6)
>Once again, you only need 2 and 5. This morning I attended a house where extra unnecessary connections were attracting interference, and causing problems.
INTENTION
I want to extend the data from the NTE5c to the extensions. My understanding is that I need to connect two of the three unused wires to the clear plastic camlocks on the rear of the faceplate. That will provide filtered Broadband to the extension sockets.
>How many ADSL-enabled extension sockets do you need? 🙂 My suggestion would be to relocate the master to where the router needs to be, replacing it’s present position with a BT78A connection box. Use the router’s RJ45 outputs to serve data sockets cabled with data cable to points in the property, or site a further stand-alone wifi transmitter in an optimal position, cabled from the router, and run devices wirelessly. My preference, however, is to hard-wire devices such as movie streaming devices.
QUESTION(!)
Which two of the W/O, W/G and G/W wires should I connect to the data terminals on the NTE5c?
> See above alternative solution above. However, for your information, terminals A and B give a filtered ADSL output, and could be terminated on a data socket(RJ45) using the “blues” (pins 4 and 5)
A long preamble to a short question! I wanted though to be as comprehensive as I could. Your input would be hugely appreciated. Thanks.
>I hope that this has moved you forward, not backward. A local independent engineer might be able to help, having see what you are wanting to achieve.
Meanwhile, if the blog and my response have value, please feel free to leave a Google review.
Rob
Do Telephone Wires have names like Electrical Wires Live, Earth, and Neutral if so which Telephone Wire Colours have names of what they do? Like for example
1) Green Power.
2) Blue Bell wire.
3) Orange Call Wire.
4) White/Orange Recieving Call Wire.
5) White/Blue Dialing Wire.
6) White/Green Broadband Wire.
The Main Telephone Cable that enters through the wall in my flat is the above 6 core cable.
I can’t understand why my Broadband Hub is working and is Blue but my Telephone and Extension Phones are not working no Dialing Tone.
Hello,
My replies as follows:-
Do Telephone Wires have names like Electrical Wires Live, Earth, and Neutral if so which Telephone Wire Colours have names of what they do?
>Names are occasionally used, but not in the same frequency as in other trades.
Like for example:-
1) Green Power.
>”The green” (!)
2) Blue Bell wire.
>”The A leg”
3) Orange Call Wire.
>”The bell wire”
4) White/Orange Recieving Call Wire.
>”The earth”
5) White/Blue Dialing Wire.
>”The A leg”
6) White/Green Broadband Wire.
>”The green/white”
The Main Telephone Cable that enters through the wall in my flat is the above 6 core cable.
>Quite common. Only 2 and 5 will be needed. The rest can be a distraction, act as aerials to interference, and slow broadband down.
I can’t understand why my Broadband Hub is working and is Blue but my Telephone and Extension Phones are not working no Dialing Tone.
>Usually this means either the A or B leg are disconnected. I have blogged recently on this.
Also, more bedtime background reading here:- https://www.britishtelephones.com/howpst.htm
Dear Rob, Just found your website/blog, fascinating and clear description. And local too, Teesside. 🙂
My question is: The incoming BT (Openreach?) cable has been cut during building work (not live as house unoccupied at this moment. I have managed to IP box the incoming cable and run a six core to a new internal Master MK telephone socket.
So could I make the connections myself before my present SKY contract is transferred from my current property to this new one or do I need to come clean a confess to SKY / Openreach.
PS. The incoming cable is black / underground, but I have not yet stripped it back yet.
Thank you for any assistance with this problem.
Thanks for the kind words, which are appreciated.
I need to make the standard declaration that anything upstream of the master socket is strictly Openreach’s property and should not be repaired and modified.
However, if you do repair or extend anything, it’s best to use the kind of hardware Openreach use, which is all freely available on-line. This arouses less suspicion, and is actually designed for the job, too.
Underground cables do require a higher level of skill in stripping back. I have blogged elsewhere on repairing damaged underground cable. If there is enough “tail” on it, then a BT66 external box can be used to house a jelly-crimped joint to the blue/white pair (assuming that this is the one which will carry your new service – there may even be a dial tone on it already). Use black-sheated CW1308 cable from there to your NTE5 junction box (use a genuine Openreach-badged one, available on-line. Openreach will probably be fine. They are fairly low on “enforcement”, and simply want ot get the job done and keep their maintenance controllers happy with work rate.
I am in Eaglescliffe, so if you do get stuck/puzzled,please let me know. Rob.
Dear Rob, thank you very much for the prompt reply and advice.
After thinking it over and admitting that I have allowed the issue to ride for awhile (too many other timescales and distractions) I believe it will be probably easier in the long run to get the repair carried out professionally.
So, do I contact Openreach and confess and throw myself at their mercy 🙁 ?
What is the best way to contact them and get someone round to carry out the repair and install a new BT master box, as one does not exist.
The original box, where the confusion started was labelled Comcast. There as never a modern BT type socket.
Thanks for your assistance here Rob.
PS. Now up against a removal date.
Kind Regards…..Peter
You’re welcome. You can only approach Openreach via your service provider, and it’s difficult to communicate what’s required. Customer service departments are script-driven. I’m often called in by exasperated customers who have tried to do this.
I am happy to take a look at this work if it’s local. Drop me a line as you wish. Details are on the contact page.
Hi, Openreach replaced the drop wire from the telegraph pole outside our house after the connection had failed (the old drop wire was decades old). This was during covid and the engineer was very reluctant even to get up the ladder due to health and safety, to be fair there was a porch below the fixing point on the wall which made clipping the dropwire difficult. He was threatening to leave the job so it we agreed he would leave the wire dangling over the porch having connected through the ground floor to a new BT 5C master socket. He fitted the drop wire extra long so I could reconnect later after clipping the dropwire along a new route.
Your helpful site means I am confident to undertake this, my query is about working live, and is this a problem?
Many thanks in advance for your help
Hello,
The Openreach chap should have either finished the job or got support to gain safe access. It’s their kit, and they should install it properly. Threatening to leave site and deprive you of service isn’t really the way to behave.
Working on the cable is just fine, as amperage is measured in milliamps,despite the voltage being 50V, 90V ring. The biggest hazard is falling off the ladder, or sticking something through the cable.
You will need (from memory) 5-7mm p-clips. “Phillex” brand are excellent, but still occasionally won’t penetrate mortar. Screwfix stock a masonry mount, part number 68305 which accepts a cable tie and appears to last forever. You will need a 9mm masonry drill though. 10mm is too big, 8mm too small.
Small sloping porch roofs are an utter pain, so tare care!
I hope that this helps. Google reviews always welcomed! 🙂 Rob
Hi Rob, great site, thank you. I’ve a specific situation I can’t find covered, hoping you can kindly help me please, I’ve outlined below.
Master socket is in bedroom, currently covered with a blank plate (It also has a white cable coming in the walk next to the master socket with an old looking phone plug in cable but I think that’s a red herring).
Extension socket in use, in living room with phone line and router etc.
Experiencing issues with dead areas, despite a new router and WiFi extenders.
If I want to move the new, powerful router upstairs to help remove dead WiFi areas in the house, what do I need to do? Do I need to change the wiring on both the master and extension socket? Originally, the extension was presumed to be the master, and the master was covered with a blank plate (possibly wires tinkered with) by an electrician, so we had to get an BT Openreach guy out to sort as we had no internet. The BT Openreach guy realised that the master had been switched off and sorted it, so we use only our extension and the master remains covered with blank plate but I can’t remember what he said to do if we ever wanted to use it again. We have a master socket plate ready to use.
I have a second, older router I hope to plug the TalkTalk TV box box into, to provide a wired ethernet connection, we have a WiFi extender to do so. Or can we use the existing phone line etc into the router?
Thanks so much for any advice, hoping to tackle it this weekend. I shall be sure to write a review, your blog is so useful!
Hi Rob, great site, thank you.
Thanks!
I’ve a specific situation I can’t find covered, hoping you can kindly help me please, I’ve outlined below.
It’s often hard to diagnose issues without actually seeing them, but I”ll have a go.
Master socket is in bedroom, currently covered with a blank plate (It also has a white cable coming in the walk next to the master socket with an old looking phone plug in cable but I think that’s a red herring).
Extension socket in use, in living room with phone line and router etc.
Experiencing issues with dead areas, despite a new router and WiFi extenders.
Not sure I grasp all of this without seeing it.
If I want to move the new, powerful router upstairs to help remove dead WiFi areas in the house, what do I need to do? Do I need to change the wiring on both the master and extension socket? Originally, the extension was presumed to be the master, and the master was covered with a blank plate (possibly wires tinkered with) by an electrician, so we had to get an BT Openreach guy out to sort as we had no internet. The BT Openreach guy realised that the master had been switched off and sorted it, so we use only our extension and the master remains covered with blank plate but I can’t remember what he said to do if we ever wanted to use it again. We have a master socket plate ready to use.
It would be best to have the new master wired as the first oscket in the house, assuming that the joint in the blanked-off socket is good.
I have a second, older router I hope to plug the TalkTalk TV box box into, to provide a wired ethernet connection, we have a WiFi extender to do so. Or can we use the existing phone line etc into the router?
Not sure I quite understand here. One broadband line, one router, and data connections from the back of it for other data services. That’s it. I’m not sure what the second router is meant to achieve. To extend your wifi coverage, consider using a Tenda MW6 extender, which can take it’s feed from the data sockets on the router, via a data cable.
Thanks so much for any advice, hoping to tackle it this weekend. I shall be sure to write a review, your blog is so useful!
I would consider getting a local independent engineer to visit and give advice. Let me have your postcode via email and I’ll see who is local. Rob
Thanks Rob, apologies for confusing the info. The BT guy told me how to make the master socket live again, probably following same guide as your explanations. My question really, is if I make the master socket live again, and use it with my router, do I need to tinker with the extension socket too, or just leave that as is?
The other things regarding routers I can check directly with my provider. Thanks for any help. We’re in Leeds but no spare money for work at the moment.
If you are not using your extension (I can’t work out if you are or not), then leave it disconnected.
If you need it connected, buy an NTE5C with a Mk4 Faceplate (plenty on eBay), connect it via terminals 2 and 5, then it’s filtered at point of arrival, and kept separate from your broadband service from it’s first point of entry into the property.
If you have an older socket, then connect your extension and use a microfilter on the extension for broadband. Much more to read on my blog about the NTE5C, and also connecting TV boxes via the RJ45 sockecs on the router.
I hope I’ve grasped the situation correctly. Apologies if not. Please feel free to come back to me. However. weekend DIY work is pressing!
Rob
Hi Rob – thanks for this very useful blog!
I’m baffled as to why my extension has stopped working following recent BT replacement of Master Socket with an OpenReach Mk. IV (Master Socket 5C) unit. Orange and White supply pair feeds to two gang press down connector at rear of front plate with terminals marked B (orange wire) and A (white wire). Further further orange/white pair for second (extension) cable routes from front 3-gang press down at front with white to 2 and orange to 5 ( middle terminal 3 not used). Black sheath exterior cabling feeding extension uses orange and white as only coloured strands with three more present, all grey and undifferentiated). I’ve connected 2 to 2 and 5 to 5 at the older extension (screw terminals) socket but phone remains dead. I’ve also tried reversing them without success. I can’t see any sign of breaks or damage to the extension cable run. Any suggestions as to what I’m doing wrong? And how can i check that signal is actually reaching the tail end of the extension pair?
Hi Rob – thanks for this very useful blog!
>Thank-you!
I’m baffled as to why my extension has stopped working following recent BT replacement of Master Socket with an OpenReach Mk. IV (Master Socket 5C) unit. Orange and White supply pair feeds to two gang press down connector at rear of front plate with terminals marked B (orange wire) and A (white wire).
>This sounds like your incoming drop wire.
Further further orange/white pair for second (extension) cable routes from front 3-gang press down at front with white to 2 and orange to 5 ( middle terminal 3 not used).
>This sounds a suitable configuration. Check that the cable is correctly installed in the connectors, that is, with each wire fully into the clear plastic latch.
Black sheath exterior cabling feeding extension uses orange and white as only coloured strands with three more present, all grey and undifferentiated).
>You appear to be describing your drop wire again, unless I’m mistaken. See my blog on dropwire. There should be twocoloured pairs, plus some purely structural spring-steel span wires.
I’ve connected 2 to 2 and 5 to 5 at the older extension (screw terminals) socket but phone remains dead. I’ve also tried reversing them without success. I can’t see any sign of breaks or damage to the extension cable run. Any suggestions as to what I’m doing wrong? And how can i check that signal is actually reaching the tail end of the extension pair?
>Work progressively from the new master socket – does your phone work when plugged into the faceplate? Is there electrical continuity along the extension cable? “Loop” one end and test with a basic multi-meter. Check that the terminations are good on your extension socket. Be aware that there are occasionally “out of box failures” with the NTE5. Your Openreach person should have checked this. Many are in a hurry, others not diligent, some a combination of both. I hope you get this resolved.
Thanks for your excellent article. I have a question regarding failing NTE5 sockets: My dad’s house has one in a downstairs room with orange and white on the A and B, and then has an extension using blue and brown connected to 2 and 5 on the faceplate. The extension wire runs externally to an upstairs room, it’s been there as long as I can remember, and I think it was probably fitted by BT many years ago. The problem is that he periodically loses the connection. I can temporarily fix the downstairs line by removing the faceplate and plugging the phone into the inside socket, but he only way I have found to bring back the connection it is to install a new faceplate. I used to have 3 lines in my own house until I got a fibre connection, and I have gone through all 3 of those faceplates some of which were B’s and C’s. Do you have any idea why this is occurring, and what is it that is breaking, and if there an easy fix ?
Thanks for your kind words.
Although I have encountered failing faceplates, failures are quite rare.
My suspicion is that there is an intermittent fault on the extension cable which gives the appearance of a faceplate failure. If you have a basic multi-meter, check the resistance in ohms of the working extension (“looping” the cable at the far end first by connecting the two legs of the cable together), then performing the same test when there is a fault. If the values differ, then this suggests a cable fault. A punch-down tool can be bought on-line to help you do this.
The blue and brown colour scheme points to the cable being quite old. Is it white-sheathed, or black? If white, then it may have degraded significantly.
Alternatively, use the services of a local independent telephone engineer to either analyse or re-cable the extension. Let me have your postcode by email, and I will see if I have any existing nearby contacts.
In my flat bt cable with 2 wire how can i connect my wifi line
Connect cable to master socket.
Plug in router.
If no master socket, ask internet service provider to arrange fitting.
Thank-you.
Rob,
your blog makes interesting reading and I hope you can answer a question for me.
We had some building work done and our external BT cable, which is at least 20 years old, has been re-routed along the front of the house. There are now several metres of redundant cable coiled by the front door and I’d like to tidy this up. Ideally I’d pull it through into the house, shorten it and reconnect to the main BT phone point. Unfortunately the cable is routed under the doorstep and is unmovable without potentially damaging the woodwork. What I’d like to do instead is simply cut the cable, excise a few metres and reconnect in an unobtrusive waterproof connector. I know it’s not a difficult job but wonder how many wires I’ll find in the cable and where to source a suitable connection box.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated (and I’m aware that the cable is the responsibility of BT but don’t want to pay a large fee for a small job).
Thanks,
Mike
Thanks for your kind words.
Does the cable arrive by pole, or up from a hole? I will assume that it’s from a pole.
It might be worth reading my blog on dropwire. This may be the kind of cable you are describing. If so, it needs a special stripping tool for removing the sheath. If it isn’t dropwire, but black, brown or grey cable, then handling is easier. Dropwire stripping tools can be bought cheaply on-line.
Again, my blog describes the colour coding of dropwire. Another blog deals with colour codes. There will only be two, possibly three pairs of coloured wires in the cable. If this cable currently terminates in a socket, take the front off that and se what colours are terminated.This will confirm which ones are in service. Dropwire ones are either orange/white or green/black. Those are the ones you need to rejoint when cut.
Buy an Openreach-specification external joint from eBay, along with jelly crimp connectors (Google “Openreach external joint”), and simply do the job!
If you need any further clarification, please let me know.
Rob.
Thanks Rob,
the cable comes from a hole in the ground to a connection box at the base of our neighbour’s house wall, from which 2 black cables emerge and run externally, one to supply my house and the other to the neighbour’s.
I didn’t think to look inside the internal terminal socket which, as you say, will have the connecting wires visible. I’ll Google and buy an appropriate connection and fix it when the family can manage without broadband for a short while.
Thanks again for the helpful advice
Regards,
Mike
Hello Mike.,
From your description, the cable to your socket will be external-grade cable, not dropwire. Hence, the standard internal “blue-orange-gree-brown-grey” sequence should apply. You could even re-joint the cable inside the shared connection box if you were feeling confident. Jelly crimp connectors should be used. There are probably already some in there. It will be easy to spot which cable goes to your property, and which colour of pair are in use.
I hope that this helps. Google reviews always welcomed (I’m trying to get to 100 🙂 ). Rob.
Hi Rob. Just moved house & found your blog…so a question!! The cable that comes into our house via the wall only has 2 wires connected that go into B & A on the Master Socket (the blue/white & white/blue)…all the others are not attached…are these 2 wires the only ones needed for an internet connection? We don’t have a land-line. Only asking as everything was left hanging off the wall. The internet did initially work but I had to move the master box to reattach & now there’s a fault…somewhere…the 2 attached wires aren’t loose or obviously damaged but want to make sure there’s no others that should be attached for the internet to work…thanks
Hello,
At a guess, these two wires (white/blue-blue/white) should be the right ones if attached to the B and A terminals on the rearmost (“wall”) face of the socket (some newer sockets also have an “A and B” on the “house” side.
If you need the help of a local independent engineer, please drop me a mail with your postcode, and I’ll see if there is anyone close.
I hope you get sorted!
Rob.
Hi Rob,
I’ve just bought a PABX on ebay that I intend to use for an intercom only – big house, teenage kids.
I’ve a pile of disused (DTMF) analogue phones, and plenty of wire – but most of it is two core. Can I get the phones to ring without the bellwire connected?
Hello,
Most PABX are 2-wire. What type of PABX is it? It needs to be carded/configured for analogue phones.
Rob.
Hi Rob
I have been searching on the internet for how to connect an RJ11 socket into an existing BT circuit with multiple outlets (one in each room). You seem to have extensive knowlwedge of this telephony malarkey and I wonder if you can help me with this.
I just purchased a phone that only has an RJ11 plug on it. I used an adaptor from RJ11 to the BT standard white plug and it works perfectly fine. However I would really like to plug the phone directly into the wall, so I bought an MK RJ11 socket and I’m just getting a little confused as to how I would wire it. The existing system uses blue/white and white/blue as the line connections with a third wire orange/white which I believe is used to ensure that all the connected telephones ring when the main number is called. On the RJ11 socket there are 4 connections which are 2 pairs. My question is, am I ok to just connect the blue/white and white blue wires to one pair of the RJ11 terminals and forget about the 3rd wire in the system? if so, does it matter which way round they are connected? Will it affect the ringing around the house if the 3rd wire is not connected to this point? I intend to leave the 3rd wire connected in all the other sockets.
Thanks in advance
Ed
Hello,
The orange “bell” wire is normally only used to boost the ring signal strength (for older devices with a high demand for ring current). It usually connects to a socket with a capacitor somewhere in the system.
It really is a case of trial and error to see if you need the third wire – normally the blue/white carry enough current to operate the ring facility. Polarity is not a problem (which way around you use them)
Sadly, I’m short on time at the moment to give lot of advice, but I can recommend the excellent site https://www.britishtelephones.com/.
You may find help there, or a link to somewhere else helpful. Rob