The BT Openreach New NTE5C Master Socket (with the Mk4 frontplate) has been available for some time now. As I’m a telephone engineer, who has dealt with master sockets for years, I thought I’d give a guided tour
Before We Start…
If you don’t want to read my masterpiece below, and just need to get in touch, click here for the details.
Meanwhile, the whole issue of moving you master socket is dealt with here and here!
To clarify, I’m looking at the type with the “Mk4” filtered front plate (shown above). You can, however, obtain other front plates, which just have a BT phone-type socket.
What’s good?
Simplicity.
Dealing with the older-style NTE5 sockets can be very fiddly! Attachment of multiple extension wires (by punching down one on top of the other ) to the front detachable panel means accidental disconnection in some cases. There’s little room. Also, the screws can be lost!
However, there’s only one point of connection for extensions on the new filtered face plate. It’s of a push-down “cam-lock” type. Cramming in lots of wires is not possible – they will need to be jointed elsewhere. Good!
Advanced Filtering.
Well, at least I hope so! Taking a filtered face plate apart reveals a complex set of filters.
Compare and contrast with the classic cheapie “dangle-filter” (on the right). Hopefully, this means more advanced filtration of noise, hence faster broadband. Apparently, it’s optimised for the fastest Openreach copper product. This is fibre to the cabinet (FTTC) VDSL. I have seen this perform at almost 60Mb download. Astonishing!
April 2019 Update – See reader responses below. Some users report dramatic results.
July 2020 Update- Important! Please note that the “pure” broadband output from the face plate is from the small socket on the front-plate (and the filtered “A” and “B” internal terminals directly behind it ) only. Put simply, if you wire an extension for a phone from it, then expect to get broadband via a plug-in filter, it won’t work!
Tool-less Installation.
It seems like Openreach want to get users to install the BT Openreach New NTE5C Master Socket themselves! For this reason, the wiring terminations are the “cam lock” type.
Simply poke wire in, and press down the lock. Done! You won’t even need a screwdriver for the front cover – it simply clips on (but not very well – more of this later.)
Space!
There seems to be a bit more inside the casing to route cables. Lack of space was a frequent problem with the older ones.
There’s an “A” and a “B” for a Remote Broadband Socket!
You can connect a socket dedicated to your broadband hub via a spare “A and B” pin, effectively delivering a “pure” broadband supply to wherever you need it. This is before it gets chance to pick up interference from other devices. More about setting up a separate secondary data-only socket here
What’s Not So Good.
It’s a Bit Bulky!
This is the down-side of the better space inside. With the filtered face plate, it sticks out around two to three inches from the surface. It makes it vulnerable to impacts, and there’s not a lot to hold it on, which leads me on to…
It’s A Bit Lightweight!
The plastic lugs which keep the front look like they would harden and snap with time. I can’t see an obvious way to repair it, apart from a foot of duct tape. In fitting them,I’ve occasionally had to bend the fastener mouldings to get a good engagement. The old master sockets used to get bashed and occasionally crack, but they were a classic BT 1980’s solid design and highly resilient.
There’s not much hope for this one, unless you hide it from shoes, dogs, chair legs, aggressive turtles, high-speed RC cars, etc. At least this generates repair work for me…
It Needs a Perfectly Level Surface to Attach To.
If your old master socket fitted onto a recessed steel back-box (as used by electrical outlets) flush-mounted in a plastered wall, you may find that the Mk4 filtered faceplate won’t stay on. No, you’re not doing anything wrong – it’s just a poor design. It won’t cope with uneven surfaces. This utterly baffled me the first time it happened. Fit it to a plastic, surface-mounted back-box, and it’s fine. However, this adds yet more protrusion and bulk.
The Cam Locks.
It actually took quite some effort to break the old-style punch-down connectors of a good-quality NTE5. The new wire termination points may be tool-less, but once you’ve broken one (and it won’t be hard), you can throw the whole unit away.
The very early ones had red-coloured cam-locks. They did have the occasional fault. The ones with clear plastic ones are more reliable.
The Cam Locks Again.
As per the comments above, you can only get one voice-side (telephone) extension pair (to a phone, etc) on the front cam locks. So, if you need more, you’ll need to be clever in cabling and jointing, using three-way jelly crimps. I have done this, and it takes time and thought. In the old master sockets it was just about possible to punch down two or even three wires per pin. Those days have gone. Buy a decent cordless set, such as a Panasonic, and run it from the front-plate!
And The Big Question – Will It Speed Up My Broadband?
If you are two miles from an exchange or FTTC cabinet, then it won’t move you closer. You will always suffer from slow speeds. Likewise, if there is a fault the Openreach network, or in your property, it won’t overcome it.
Update – June 2018 – many folks are reporting good results, included in the comments below.
But if you are in the mood to change your old NTE5, then it won’t do any harm. The whole broadband thing constantly amazes me. I’m astounded that it ever works at all. I would suggest getting one. I can even fit it for you (or find someone local who can) if you get in touch! !
Higher speed? The cynical old engineer in me says “maybe”. They are cheap-ish on eBay, and it’s worth a try. As I’ve said, some folks are reporting a marked speed improvement. For now, with the BT Openreach New NTE5C Master Socket, that’s about as far as I’d go.
I got master socket 5c connected to my phone and internet my internet keep dropping is master socket 5c ok
Hello,
Some early ones were know for high resistance faults. They are identifiable by the red-coloured termination levers (where the cable ends fit). Later ones had clear plastic termination devices, and are known to be more reliable.
Generally,however,there are not may problems with this device. If you replaceyour 5C with what you had before, and the problem goes away, it’s definitely the socket. Take it back to the supplier!
Monitored my broadband speed same time every day for a week before installation, using Broadband Speed Checker avg around 3. Installed Mk4 socket. Speed now averages 4.5, using same method. Money well spent.
Thanks for sharing this result. Effects do seem to vary.
When asked by customers if I can guarantee and improvement, I don’t promise anything, but say “it can’t do any harm”… Probably not the most professional and customer-friendly answer, but fairly honest.
Personally, knowing what broadband runs over to get to a property, then what it has to cope with once there, I’m amazed that it ever works at all.
Thanks once again. Rob.
Ordered G.Fast 7th April with BTw estimated 330/50 with BT Fibre 250
273Mb – 300Mb
Your download speed range
Your Stay Fast Guarantee 150Mb
Upload speed range 27Mb – 46Mb
Engineer just switched on G.fast April 23rd but never come to my house. BT Hub say line speed is 241/23 with my old VDSL faceplate 5C master socket.
Should Engineer need to come out to install G.fast master socket instead of 5C as BT tech support say make no difference. Say G fast are up to 273/27
I would suggest that they either send a G.Fast master socket for you to install yourself (not difficult – they were designed for customer installation), or you persist with them, on the basis that they have sold you a product but not supplied one of it’s dedicated components, and that they should send an engineer free-of-charge,not only to install, but verify the speed increase once installed.
Any astonishing results?
It won’t suddenly improve a poor service from your provider. But if you have a good service to start with, it might make things better. I’m amazed that broadband over copper ever works at all. For the price of the hardware, it’s always worth a go.Rob
BT just fitted me one and the speed has improved considerably! It was good before but is now better. It was running through the latest BT Homehub wirelessly at around 38mbps and is now running fastest at around 52mbps which is probably the best i can get. The engineer said that the line is running at 59mbps but obviously your not going to get that to a device.
So in a nutshell, I’m very happy with the upgrade of my master socket
Thanks for the feedback. As I may have mentioned before, it won’t give you 52Mb down if you’re only getting 35Mb from the exchange/cabinet! Just for the record, the fastest I’ve seen over a copper pair was around 55Mb. The customer was around 400 metres from a fibre-equipped cabinet.
I am pretty close to my cabinet and over copper I am getting 74MB
Astonishing! Thanks for the information.
As an engineer, and knowing where some of these copper pairs go on the Openreach network, I’m amazed that ADSL ever works at all!
I’m getting 74MB as well in fact on speedofme it’s 79MB. Still got a MK4 faceplate ordered though to see which way it goes.
Astonishing! My humble suggestion would be to leave things just as they are! I’ve done that in the past when speeds were well within what was useful for the customer,despite their quest for even higher speeds.
I often compare VDSL/ADSL as like two tuning forks, one at each end of the circuit, resonating in unison, and data travelling down the “note” that they strike. If they are in harmony, I wouldn’t consider disturbing them!
Thanks for the feedback.
I just installed a MK4 VDSL, was on a single telephone socket older model before, the speed has improved a heap more, before averaged 45-50mb max on PC via ethernet, anything from 20-40mb on WiFi.
As soon as I did switch over, went from above speeds to 66mb on ethernet and 59mb on WiFi ????.
Well worth the near enough £10 off of eBay.
Am on a 75mb plan but was told my line is 55mb capable, so to get 66mb now, well impressed.
A super story – thanks for sharing it. It’s about the only positive comment on here that I can remember – most come to share their problems.
I’m astounded that broadband over a pair of copper wires ever works at all! Rob
I fitted one to my fibre to the cabinet BT line. Speed improved immediately from maximum 17 to a steady 20 Mbps. Then I ran a separate line to the Wi-Fi router and the speed went up to 24 Mbps. This speed is now constant all day, it no longer drops off in the late afternoon/evening like before. Well worth the effort.
All good news! Thanks for sharing this. However, I’m surprised by the change to the time-related speed issue. This sounds like “contention”, that is, lots of folks all trying to use the same service and slowing it down. It usually gets worse when children come home from school! Rob.
Time related interference can also be your phone wiring acting as a MW/SW radio aerial – the frequencies are the same after all. Short wave radio propagation in particular is very time of day dependant, and so the level of radio pick up can be too. A well balanced and filtered line reduces the pick-up getting into the sensitive receiver like parts of the modem.
Thanks for sharing your insight. There is a MW frequency which can be used to check for interference, so I understand.
I’m about to move to Sky after 35 years with BT – so I’m a little nervous that the process goes smoothly as I work from home a lot and if my broadband install fails / encounters delays I’m a bit stuffed workwise.
I’ve done as much homework on pre-install as I think a “normal” person can do. My only slight concern is the phone socket in my house in to which I’ll plug my new Sky Q Router when my switchover happens on Thursday (later this week).
I’m moving from BT Standard Broadband to Sky Fibre Max.
My current socket is a BT LJU3/1A (Master). Do you know if this is 100% ok for Sky Fibre Max (with Sky Q Hub) – or – do I need to call Sky to get the socket “upgraded” to something like a “NTE5a Openreach” master socket – which I have read about a lot.
Or – should I not worry as the BT LJU3/1A (Master) will be just fine?
Fitted this, replacing a old style master socket and the results after a few weeks in, are fantastic.
from 72 downstream its up to just under 80.
Thanks for sharing this. 80 is about the fastest I’ve ever heard of.
Hi Rob BT engineer finally been to my house after me putting up with poor wi fi, tv and lots of problems since start of the year.
He has fitted the new BT nte5 after replacing a very old Openreach box. Megs went from 11 to 21 !
This one looks better but feels as if its barely hanging on the wall and now all paint damaged from where he’s taken the other off.
I ran outside to ask him why it was loose and his reply was “it’s not going anywhere” 😕
Is this how these new ones are ?loose because reading the reviews they are not able to be fixed well am I right ?
Hello,
They should clip onto the other part of the socket. However, they need an even surface behind that part of the socket, as I mentioned in the blog.
Let me have some photos if you still need help, via info@..
I have one of these mk4 master sockets but the problem is connecting it to the bt smart hub router, as the router has an ADSL plug.
Master socket isn’t usable directly ad there is no mains socket near it to power the smart hub.
Is there such a thing as a converter to go from a Male Ethernet plug to ADSL female or an ADSL male to Ethernet Female that can be plugged from router to accept a run of Ethernet cabling?
The RJ45 female on the faceplate will accept an RJ11 (as supplied with ADSL routers). The active pair is the blue pair (the central two), so the lack of outer connection is not critical. However, this does not quite answer your question if you intend to use ethernet cabling! It is possible to use a female-female RJ45 coupler and insert the RJ11 at one end.
The more elegant solution would be to hard-wire another master socket from the customer-side A and B unfiltered terminals, terminating them on the exchange-facing A and B of the second “slaved master”, then plugging the RJ11 into the front of this socket. I hope that this helps.
Just had a bt out because phone and internet went down and they have swapped the old one and put this 5c master in saying old one had a fault but when checked it with a multimeter all working so my question is the wiring must be different
Both types are fed by the same single pair from their network, so no difference. Also, the 2, 3 and 5 on the customer side are the same.
It could be an intermittent fault on the old one – the tracks on the PCB, or the soldered pins often break down. Test it off the wall and it’s fine – put it back on the wall and the fault returns.
I want to fit three additional slave sockets off of my mk4 master socket for internet for different tv’s around the house to connect to. Do i have to run three different cables to each slave socket or do i run a cable to the first slave socket and then to next and so on?
Thanks
I’m a bit puzzled here – do the TV’s need a telephone line, or a data connection? I’ve not come across all three TV’s needing a phone line. Ifit’s a data (ethernet) connection, then you can run Cat 5/Cat 6 cable from your hub to each TV/TV Box.
Hi all, I’ve just gone up to faster fibre so its still copper into the house but I have an older modem the huwaei HG633 and am wondering if I should upgrade it to take advantage of the higher broadband speeds now. I’m getting about 35Mbps all the time and i’m close to the substation in the park!
It’s always worth a try, but if 35 is all you’ll ever get due to what’s coming from the exchange side, it won’t make much difference! 🙂
another question? How important is it to have the modem/router near to my bt master wall socket? At the moment, my modem is upstairs on a long cable. The cable is the best I could get, braided, shielded etc and it goes from the rj11 in the bt wall socket up and terminates in what looks like an rj45 plug but has only 6 connectors and is plugged into the ‘broadband’ socket on the back of the modem/router. I’m getting my 35mbps ok. It is enough for my purposes but as I have upped my monthly payments I’d like to think that I’m maxing them out!
I always prefer to have the shortest cable possible from master socket to router. Most of these cables are untwisted-pair and poor quality, but a metre or so is bearable. However, if you run a speed test with the original short cable (supplied with the router), then with your longer one, and compare the two, this will indicate if you are losing anything down the longer cable.
Hi. Thanks for the great articles. Some great info out there. I’m in the middle of a network pull in a new house and have come across what is all too common I fear. A master socket in a hallway where its difficult to place a router without trailing power cables and data cabling. My thoughts were as you suggested in an article to create a secondary master from this neatly wired in wall. I have some questions on the nte5c + mk4 combo in doing this. If i wire a secondary master from the legally touchable AB data extension it looks like the signal will pass 2 rein filters, one at master and one again as it comes int0 secondary. First question is it ok to do that? Logically it seems it would be ok but will stand corrected. And maybe beneficial if the run of cable between master and secondary had accidentally picked up some noise en route. Other question was could it potentially be a cause of some slow down (albeit small possibly) havibg to go through yet another filtering. Can’t make my mind up on it and may just go ahead and purchase one to test out… Actually other thing is its mk3 to mk4 aswell so wondering if there would be any curve balls from that also.
Only up the road in sunny durham too ????
Many thanks!
Thanks for the generous words. The A and B are unfiltered, although they appear to be integral to the filtering equipment. Hence the first point of filtering would be on the second “slaved” master socket. They are unfiltered on the Mk3 as well as the Mk4.
In respect of location, despite being advanced in filtering REIN, the Mk4 is quite flimsy, the filtered faceplate is held on by two small integral clips. Therefore, my preference would be to put the more robust Mk3 in the more exposed position, which I’m guessing would be the hallway.
I hope that this helps. Meanwhile, can I scrounge some social media feedback, please? 🙂
—-
If this is helpful to you, would you be able to leave some feedback on the following social media pages, please?
This helps me to continue giving free advice.
https://goo.gl/maps/p1n9wxi5T6p
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Thanks!
Rob
Hi Rob, I have an old NTE5 with screw terminals and a twin large diameter drop wire. Will the new NTE5c cam locks take the large diameter drop wire?
Regards, Dave.
Hello,
Is this cable with a black sheath, or the older stuff with a grey sheath and thick parallel wires? If it’s the latter,I doubt if it will go in, as the cam locks are quite sensitive.
I seem to recall that only screw terminals will work if it’s the really old grey dropwire. Google”BT80A” and you’ll see a connector box which has screw terminals at one side, and the IDC connectors at the other. You may have to use one of these.
Normal Dropwire 10 should be fine, but take care with those camlock connectors, as, like the rest of the socket, they are quite flimsy, and can easily get bent out of shape.
Hi Rob,
Many thanks for your speedy reply. Yes it is the old grey twin from a JB on the outside wall. I will use your suggestion of a BT80A to sort things out.
Again, many thanks for your help.
Regards, Dave.
Hello,
No problem. This stuff is known to slow broadband signals down, as the conductors are parallel, not twisted. Openreach won’t replace it as a matter of routine replacement of obsolete infrastructure. However, in extreme cases, it has been known to “mysteriously fall down of it’s own accord” in the middle of the night, requiring replacement ;-).
Meanwhile my standard cheeky request…
—
If this is helpful to you, would you be able to leave some feedback on the following social media pages, please?
This helps me to continue giving free advice.
https://goo.gl/maps/p1n9wxi5T6p
http://www.facebook.com/telecomgreen
twitter.com/phone_engineers
Thanks!
Rob
Hi, Rob TalkTalk fitted one of these (Openreach mk4) after I lost my incoming call signal outgoing ok, after 2 days of everything working I was back to square one, could not receive incoming calls again.TalkTalk asked me to try the test unit and everything worked ok, they say that as the test unit is ok the front part is my responsibility and want to charge me £50.00to replace it, could you advise, please.
Many Thanks
George
Hello,
Thanks for the comment.
TalkTalk continue to surprise me… 😉
I understood that the whole master socket was the responsibility of the provider, who would pass on the on-site work to Openreach (and replace it). However, I will take advice from my community of wise old engineers.
I would suggest that it will be easier and cheaper for you to replace the front face-plate yourself, as it’s not difficult. The components are cheap and readily available. Drop me a line with a photo and I can advise which type you need. Alternatively, an independent engineer would be able to help, but would be around the same price. I may be able to find one for you.
——-
If this is helpful to you, would you be able to leave some feedback on the following social media pages, please?
This helps me to continue giving free advice.
https://goo.gl/maps/p1n9wxi5T6p
http://www.facebook.com/telecomgreen
twitter.com/phone_engineers
Thanks!
Rob
Update to the above. My forum of wise old men confirm unanimously just what I thought, namely that, this is a TalkTalk problem to be sorted out by Openreach, (providing that there’s nothing from your premises wiring attached to it.) They have no right to charge you £50.00 to sort out a problem on an Openreach-owned component. I’d better stop here before slip into rant mode and let you know how I feel about some providers…
Thanks so much for your help Rob, will see what happens on Wednesday.
Great info, just ordered one from Amazon.
Rick
Thanks. Some folks have had good results.
I’ve had persistent problems with my broadband ADSL connection (low speeds, frequent dropouts). Finally on Friday (two days ago) an Openreach engineer called to investigate. He fitted one of these to replace the aging socket and splitter I had and so far the results have been terrific: I’m getting 13.64 Mbps and the line hasn’t dropped once. Touch wood, it looks like this is a simple solution to a very long-lasting problem.
Great news. I’ve seen similar increases when a dangle-filter has simply been replaced with another one. However, the NTE5C is about as advanced as a filter can get.
I have amaster socket 5C to which we connect our telephone\modem and all works fine. The master socket has a second connection (2 wires) to an extension point on the 2nd floor of our house. When I connect a telephone to this extension it works fine, but when I connect our Plusnet modem it doesn’t work – I have tried the extension point with\without a separate filter but this makes no difference, with the modem lights reporting that the ADSL connection is missing. I want to move the modem because it’s location downstairs is not the best and it does not provide good coverage. Any idea why the telephone works but not the modem on the extension point??
Hello,
Totally baffling, this one!
I will run this past my forum of “telecom wise men” and see what they can suggest.
Before I do that, some basic questions:- Are you using the same cord upstairs as well as downstairs? Have you proven that the dangling, plug-in filter works in the downstairs socket with the front removed (test position)? These are made in the Far East for around 10p and are known to occasionally cause problems.
Hi Rob,
Did you ever get any further information about the above query, as I have the exact same problem.
I’ve tried connecting the router to the upstairs extension socket with the same cord and a number of different plug-in filters.
I read on another forum that the Master Socket 5c Mk4 (that an engineer just installed) is a filtered master socket, meaning the signal is literally filtered out (I’m guessing this means the data signal is filtered out from the signal going to the extension?).
Is there a way to have it so it isn’t filtered out to the extension as it isn’t practical at all having the router downstairs, and I can’t run Ethernet wiring etc. all the way around the house.
Thank you!
Mike
This is currently a topic under discussion on an engineer’s forum, and the consensus is that the 2 and 5 pins on the faceplate (which serve extensions) will not give an ADSL signal to the extension. However, the “A” and “B”, will. Therefore moving the master to where the current extension is and extending the wiring (“crimping through” in old-school BT-speak) is a viable alternative (providing that there is nothing else between it and the Openreach network). The location of the old master can then be made an extension from the new master, or simply be blanked off.
I hope this makes sense.
I have rewritten my previous blog on “How to Move Your BT Master Socket” to reflect the use of a data-only extension from “A” and “B” to an RJ11 plug-compatible socket. This may make more sense once read!
Hey-ho. I hate dispensing duff information, but we live and learn. Some other “aged engineers” had made the same error. Rob
I’ve just had this socket fitted. It is in different place to my old one, so the hub has moved about 12 ft (in the same room). But this seems to have seriously affected wifi speeds upstairs in the house. I’m thinking the absolute easiest solution is to simply buy some extension cable for the hub (BT Hub 5) and move it back to where it was. I bought this cable https://www.amazon.co.uk/1STec-connection-Transmission-Performance-Microfilter-White/dp/B07B3MXFG1/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1540475594&sr=8-2&keywords=openreach+mk4+extension+lead and it didn’t work. (the hub just kept flashing red). Is it possible to simply use an extension cable hub to socket? If so, could you please recommend one. Thanks.
Hello,
The cable looks of a good specification, and appears to have sold well, so I’m puzzled as to why it doesn’t work.
I have blogged elsewhere on this site about “How to Move Your Master Socket Without Actually Moving IT
It is possible to set up a high-quality hard-wired link between your master and another socket.
I hope that this helps. The drop-off in wifi quality may point to some interference.
Rob
Just a thought, if just the WiFi upstairs that is affected, maybe a pair of powerline adaptors would solve the problem, the upstairs one could either provide Ethernet or WiFi signal or both ?
Always worth a try, Martin. I’m never 100% convinced about them, but they certainly do work well for some situations.
Re Master Socket 5c
We have had one installed for a while and now the internet drops when the phone rings.
Does this socket require filters on all landline extensions? It was installed without.
Yes, pop a filter on each phone extension and see if that solves the issue.
Are your extensions connected to terminals 2 and 5 on the front-plate, by the way?
Thanks, I will give filters a try.
Regarding extension connections I don’t know, it was installed by the BT engineer so I have assumed OK. Will get our son to check though.
Wade a minute… Are you sure that an NTE filters the DSL side of things at all? Sure, it filters the DSL signal for the phone (voice socket) but the other side? Doesn’t the CPE filter or ignore anything in the audiable range? Is there actually any active circuitry on the DSL side?
Hello,
Not sure what you are saying here, but to clarify, the smaller scoket (RJ11) gives a dedicated ADSL output to the customer side, filtered of any noise and interference from the voice circuitry on the CPE (customer’s equipment) side. There is an additional “A and B” pin output on the customer side for hard-wiring of this supply to an additional ADSL socket.
This link may help.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/02/a-quick-look-at-bt-openreachs-new-nte5c-master-socket.html
There is much more on the web.
Tried one of these and speed went from 40meg to 45meg overnight. DLM kicked in at about 2am. I saw a minor increase after connecting but, people need to be patient. Not sure whether my old socket was faulty or whether the new one is of a superior design.
Thanks
I recently had a fault with my phone line, and while the phone is now working, a line test still shows a HR near my premises, which explains why my fttc hasn’t gone back to full speed. OR due tomorrow. I came across your really useful site and wasn’t aware of the NTE5c so will ask if one can be fitted, based on comments about improved speed. But I now see there is a G. Fast version which is supposedly compatible with non-G. Fast. Has anyone got one of those (on a standard fttc)? I might invest in one, though there’s no sign of G. Fast on my cab (the two neighboring ones do, but I saw in The Register that OR have paused the rollout).
I’m ashamed to say that this is news to me! They have not been mentioned by any of the engineers I network with. I shall try and get some feedback.
https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-faceplates/g-fast-openreach-faceplate/
At the risk of stating the obvious, it does not bring your premises closer to the exchange or the FTTC cabinet – it will make the best of the VDSL service you get, but if that is poor, then you will be restricted by the line side of things (including HR (high resistance) ) faults.
Hi I have a 5C master socket. Black wire connected to A and Green wire connected to B
The phone works fine when plugged in to the test socket.
I added an extension to the master socket, Blue with white rings to 2, orange with white rings to 3 and white with blue rings to 5.
The phone will not work, no dial tone, if plugged in to the extension but still works if connected to the test socket.
When I connect the MK4 faceplate, when I plug the phone in to the phone socket on the faceplate the phone will not work, no dial tone, yet when I connect my router to the ADSL connector on the faceplate the internet connects and works
Any ideas as to why the phone will not work yet the internet works fine
Hello,
There may be an issue with one of the prongs on the “female” socket (test socket) being out of line when the faceplate is pushed in, but in alignment when a phone line “male” plug is pushed in. I have a vague memory of this happening to me with a customer and it totally baffling me! Check that they are all vaguely in line and equally “springing out”. They always look a bit flimsy to me.
Alternatively, something in the faceplate could be faulty, a damaged circuit board track, etc. Check that the circuit board is correctly retained in the plastic lugs (it just pushes in – more flimsiness).
The reason that the ADSL will work, but the phone won’t, is that, astonishingly, it does not need a circuit (two functioning wires) to work. It will work at only 30-50% of it’s normal speed, but it will still work. When I first encountered this some years ago, it really did baffle me.
Finally, a cheeky request for social media feedback! It helps me to justify taking the time to give free advice. A review on Facebook or Google would truly be appreciated.
https://goo.gl/maps/p1n9wxi5T6p
http://www.facebook.com/telecomgreen
twitter.com/phone_engineers
Thanks!
Rob
I have had bt openreach broadband and telephone engineers here 5 timesi in the last month alone, they have replace the main socket new up to date one and added a total of 3 (up to now brand new faulty) NTE5c face plates they all fail after only one day, I have to revert to unplugging the new faceplate and plugging the old ‘hang loose’adsl filter to get any workable speed again,
I have been battling with bt to get things sorted out (as they were mis selling and mis sold me my contract and sold totally misleading unrealistic speeds for years, I have beeb paying for the top range superfast broadband and we cant even get it here)!!
I am down to an avaerage of 17mbps speed now with the new faceplates and around 20mbps with the old filter.
Each time a open reach engineer comes I loose another 10mbps speed!!!!!!!
Any ideas??? Just done a case through ombudsman/ofcom …
We started off with 56mbps when we 1st signed up years ago, then a few years later aroind 40mbps, then last year average 30 mbps speed now we are down to 17mbps with the NTE5c faceplate and witg the faceplate removed and the old filter in 20mbps!!!
We have the copper and the cabinet is just up the road 2 mins from us!!
I have tried 5 new hubs altogether in the last 2 months.
It is making me really ill … dont want bt open reach here again because I know I will be down to about 10mbps next!!!????
Sincere commiserations. You are the third person in three weeks who has contacted me with very similar problems, and a similar total lack of progress.
I would suggest writing to Sharon White at OFCOM, marking the the letter “private and confidential”, and sending via Royal Mail Special Delivery. This should help to get it to it’s final destination – an email would simply end up with all the other emails.
I have had partial success this way with one of my customers. They had their line stolen by a supplier installing at a neighbouring house, they are in their eighties, not good with mobiles, infirm, and with a high-dependency disabled son. I also copied the CEO of Openreach, and also the CEO of their provider, Plusnet. Names and addresses are available on the internet. I hope that this helps.
Thank you Rob,
I am disabled, my eldest son (19) is my f/t carer,
my husband died suddenly 2 years ago now and I have been through hell and still trying to sort things out with bt, it has been going on for years now…
My problem is that in the past we tried other providers, but, much worse!!
Finally enough is enough and my complaint is with the ombudsman now who will keep an eye on bt and make sure they do what they say this time and stick to it, currently in negotiations with my case manager at BT …
I always suspected someone was using my line but cant prove thjs myself .. (maybe this is why my speeds are so bad and connection keeps dropping, interference on phone, etc)!?!?
One of neighbours very close to our house here works for bt openreach and I have had other problems with the same neighbour since my husband died!!
Hopefully ALL will come to light and get sorted soon.
(Looking for a flying pig outside whilst typing here)!!!
Thanks. I hope you get it solved. My contention with OFCOM is that, like your issue, some providers just seem to “shrug” about seemingly intractable problems. Meanwhile, CEOs and the government trumpet the need for “Digital Britain”, yet providers can’t even seem to get the fundamentals right.
I live in a rural are about 5km from the nearest exchange. Up to now the max spped we could get was 3 Mb/s (yes three !!!). An Openreach engineer fitted one of these 5C Master Socket (with the Mk4 frontplate) and our speed went up to 5.8 Mb/s.
I know for you 30 Mb/s + people , this is laighable, but it has made a huge difference. I’m now able to watch a HD football match without buffering (as long as the kids are out of course)
Good news! Thanks for sharing it.
Hi, I wonder if you could tell me how to wire an external bell to the latest open reach master socket, many thanks.
Connect to 3 and 2 or 3 and 5 (I can’t recall which combination as cocktails have been enjoyed here… 🙂 )
Hi I have just installed a mk4 faceplate I can plug my phone into the phone jack and it works fine but my BT hub does not connect when plugged into the vdsl socket. However, it does work if I use an external micro filter in the phone jack, any ideas
Possibly a faulty faceplate. It’s not unknown.
Hi Rob
Trying to connect a Mikrotik router to internet so I can configure it. The router only has RJ45 ports. The NTE 5C (Mark 4) accepts a RJ45 but if I use this I can’t connect to the internet (similarly if I connect an RJ45 from the BT HomeHub5 I lose the internet connection. I am on a standard DSL line operating at only 2.5Mbps and usually connect via an RJ11 cable between the HomeHub and the Openreach NTE without any problems. Any suggestions?
Baffling! Both the RJ11 and RJ45 have the “blues” as the centre pair, and an RJ11 will fit an RJ45.
Have you tried another patch lead? Or the RJ11? Some of the OEM ones have been “out of box failures” for me. Check also that it is not a “crossover” cable, although the blue pairs would not be affected.
It is not unknown for the faceplates to fail, too. If you have an old router and cable that would prove that the fault is not with the new router.
I’m in a new build (2013) and have ADSL broadband (EO Line 500m from exchange) but never had a branded “master” socket. I have a plain phone socket near TV in living room with others in Bedrooms upstairs. I assume the “master” is the one in the living room. My BT line is connected to the internal wiring via a BT66 junction box outside. Would I benefit in installing one of these and if so would it be easy to install? Would BT be annoyed if I did??? I’ve always suffered with drop outs of service but get decent 15mb download when connected. Thanks
I would suggest tracing the cabling in your house, buying a master socket (NTE5C with Mk4 filtered faceplate), making this the first point of entry of the service, and disconnecting whatever else you don’t need. At 500M from the exchange you should be getting more than 15Mb (unless that’s all you pay for). The other cables in the house may be attracting interference. Also, assuming that you are using a plug-in ADSL filter, you may find that the filtered faceplate speeds things up. Finally, ensure that you only connect a single pair of wires to pins 2 and 5 – you don’t need anything on pin 3.
Thanks Rob. I’ve been told the max speed I can get on my line is 19mb down and 1.5mb up. (been told will never get fibre as on EO Line) Its not really feesable to trace cables as I don’t fancy pulling up floor boards etc (and being new build there are no “floor boards” per say). Would it be a reasonable assumption that the main cable goes to socket near the tv in the living room and then all the extensions go from there? Any other way to confirm this>??My home also has CAT5 cables to all rooms. As I’ve been having problems recently BT have sent me a new router and are sending an engineer out on Saturday to have a look. Would they fit the master socket anyway? i’ll wait until after the visit to order the filtered face-plate as you suggest. Much appreciated.
Thanks Rob. I’ve been told the max speed I can get on my line is 19mb down and 1.5mb up. (been told will never get fibre as on EO Line)
Its not really feesable to trace cables as I don’t fancy pulling up floor boards etc (and being new build there are no “floor boards” per say).
>Not physically tracing, but using a tone generator and probe to trace where the wires come out. They can be bought for less than £20.00
Would it be a reasonable assumption that the main cable goes to socket near the tv in the living room and then all the extensions go from there?
>Assumptions in situations like this can often be wrong! Cablers route the cables to their convenience!
Any other way to confirm this>??
>The cable identification device can be used to “bell out” your cat 5 sockets, too, if you don’t know where they are.
My home also has CAT5 cables to all rooms.
>Very useful -Lucky you!
As I’ve been having problems recently BT have sent me a new router and are sending an engineer out on Saturday to have a look. Would they fit the master socket anyway?
>Get their tea/coffee preference and specification correct, and buy premium biscuits. Make sure they have room to get at everything. You may get a kindly one who will fit one. On the other hand, they should fit one as a test point to their network anyway.
i’ll wait until after the visit to order the filtered face-plate as you suggest. Much appreciated.
>No problem. Facebook and Google feedback always appreciated! Links below.
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Hi Rob,
Hoping you can help with my long standing issue.
We had a bad patch of weather 3 months ago with loads of rain.
The phone went static/crackle mad and vdsl was bouncing like a yoyo – 0.5 mpbs at best.
Eventually lost the dial tone with no dial out. but vdsl just hanging in there at 0.5mbps.
Call to plusnet, openreach turned up and fixed a bad copper joint + faceplate change to the NTE5C + Mk4.
Line reset – backup to 40mpbs – Yay!
2 days later vdsl back down to 2-3mpbs per second, with multiple drops per day – assuming DLM kicked in. Phone still ok though.
Openreach out again – apparently last engineer did not crimp the pairs properly – new down lead, line reset, 39 mbps.
Line dropped again to 2-3 mbps with multiple drops per day – plusnet texted to me say fault detected. Phone still ok.
Openreach out again – no fault found – new NTE5C + Mk4. New router deployed.
Line reset back up to 39mbps.
Few days later – line eventually dropped down to 18mbps – Phone ok.
Another new router supplied by plusnet – deployed this time straight to test socket.
Awaiting for DLM to kick tonight, but guessing this will not fix this.
Do you reckon there is still a fault with the copper from cab to my house?
Or is this down to the new NTE5C + Mk4 plate?
Any help would be appreciated!
cheers.
Hello,
If this does not resolve itself, this sounds like an intermittent fault on the Openreach side. These kind of faults are the worst sort to diagnose and fix. You will need to persist with Plusnet to get them to mobilise Openreach again. Meanwhile, a replacement NTE5C and Mk4 filter can probably be had for less than ten pounds on eBay, so one of those is worth a try. They seem to keep falling out of the back doors of vans, so are genuine, not cheap clones.
Good news:- you are dealing with a reasonably good ISP. I hope you get it sorted.
Hi, openreach recently fitted a new master socket 5c mk4 but I am getting some intermittent interference on the phone line. Can I add an additional filter? Thanks
Interference? Is it audible crackling? Dial 17070 and select “quiet line test”, then listen If you hear noise, it’s a line-side problem that needs to be reported to your ISP.
Openreach were out and said it was caused by a cable from router to tv however I have left it disconnected. Now less crackly but noise at times more like old dial up sound or fax connection. Thought maybe built in filter not enough so wondered if I can add an additional filter
The standard filter should be fine. There should be no noise at all. Do you have a landline phone you can connect direct to the test port of the master socket(behind the filtered faceplate)? Connect a landline phone to that and check for noise by dialling 17070 and choosing the “quiet line test” when prompted. If there is noise,then time to revert to your ISP
Thanks very much for your help- much appreciated. I will try this but as it’s only intermittent it may take a few days to establish as the noise isn’t always there.
You’re welcome. Intermittent faults are difficult to diagnose and fix – I deal with them regularly. Sadly, you will need to persist with your ISP. Meanwhile..
If this is helpful to you, would you be able to leave some feedback, ideally a short “review” on the following social media pages, please?
This helps me to continue giving free advice.
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Thanks!
Rob
Hi Rob,
Some good info here – great work.
Just one detail is somewhat misleading – where you say:
“There’s an “A” and a “B” for a Remote Broadband Socket!
You can connect a socket dedicated to your broadband hub via a spare “A and B pin, effectively delivering a filtered broadband supply to wherever you need it.”
You meant of course “unfiltered”.
Thanks for spotting the error! Thanks, also, for the kind words of appreciation.
Hi Rob,
Great article. Request your advice to solve a issue I am facing. Openreach guy came & replaced old socket & socket plate with this new master socket 5c MK4 socket set. Its working good. However, it has disconnected broadband connectivity to every extension socket in all other rooms. Phone line connection working ok for these extensions. Any suggestion how to make them connected again please?
It’s very inconvenient coz, master socket is in master bedroom and I want to avoid connecting router etc there.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for your kind words.
Your problem did have me puzzling for some time. I put the situation to my on-line forum of wise old engineers, and the verdict was that the Mk4 filtered faceplate (as used on the NTE5C) provides a high-quality filtered output via the front small socket but does not allow broadband service on other extension sockets. Having fitted many of these sockets, it’s the first time I have encountered this issue.
However,it is possible to have a broadband-only service hard-wired to the faceplete via data cable and pins “A” and “B” which are located inside the front section of the faceplate. This would involve running data cable to data socket. Only one socket could have this service. However, a broadband-only output, feeding your router, connected to a small data switch, could allow you to serve multiple data points. I have blogged elsewhere on this topic. I recommend that you browse previous blogs, as this is a popular topic. I hope that this helps.
Dear Rob,
Many thanks again for your inputs on this. Could you share the link to the previous blog you are referring please?
Also, I am happy to take assistance from expert technicians who could fix this issue for me.
Thanks, Your help is much appreciated.
Thanks, again, for your appreciation.
This blog…
https://telecomgreen.co.uk/home-phone-repair/moving-your-internet-router-an-engineers-advice/
…may help, and contains links to other blogs.
I hope that this helps. Drop me a mail via the contact page with your postcode if you need the services of an independent engineer. Rob.
Lots of good info in your article.
Just upgraded from ‘Fast Broadband’ to the latest Smart Hub2.
I already had the Master socket NTE5C + VDSL MK4 Faceplate (2016) and was getting on my original broadband speeds of 67Mb at my PC whilst the hub was reporting 74Mb (to be expected). When I had my new Smart hub and they changed me over at the cabinet, I eventually got 108Mb at my PC and the hub was reporting 121Mb. When the BT Engineer tested at the distribution point at the entry to the premises he said he was getting 130Mb. He did find a faulty cable from the Master socket to the hub which got me from 98Mb to just over 100Mb. I moved my hub as this was resting on top of a tp-link 16 port switch, after the move this got me up to 108Mb. So overall quite pleased with the extra speed.
He did say that the new Smart hub2 was limited to 300mts from the cabinet. I moved my original master hub some time ago from the front door to a spare bedroom which I used as a study and all my PC kit etc is in there and with the extra cable estimated the cable length to be in excess of 300mts. Like you I am amazed at the speed via copper from the house to the cabinet (FTTC). Is there there any information that you know of relating to DLM and the kit in the cabinet as the engineer says all the clever stuff is in there and not so much at the exchange?
Amazing! Thanks for sharing this. I know very little about what goes in the cabinets. However, up to 300m seems to be the optimum – I have witnessed the highest speeds at this distance.
Meanwhile, don’t change anything! 🙂
“You can connect a socket dedicated to your broadband hub via a spare “A and B” pin, effectively delivering an filtered broadband supply to wherever you need it”
Did you mean unfiltered?
Yes – some confusion on my part in an earlier draft of this blog. The word “filtered” is potentially confusing. The output of A and B isn’t “actually” filtered, as it does not get involved with the voice side, apart from in the socket. “Pure” is probably a better word. Thanks for spotting this.I will change the wording. Rob
So an engineer came out recently when I had a fault but said I could only have DSL at the master socket and not on an extension. Alternatively I would have to move the master socket, so I got him to leave the original socket as it was.
It seems that’s not true and the DSL modem can be on an extension by being wired in to the a-b socket on the back plate or the a-b socket on the front plate.
Yes – the “A” and “B” on the removable front plate can be connected via Cat5e (or better) cable to the “blues” on an RJ45 or RJ11 socket (corresponding to the centre pins of the plugs), and hence provide a “pure” ADSL/VDSL service direct to your router/hub.
Great. Looks like I’ll be wiring it myself then.
Thanks
It’s all legitimate, straightforward and effective. All the necessary stuff is available on eBay/Amazon.
Could you tell me if what I’ve done should be ok please?
I only have DSL and no phones. I wired what was in 2&5 on the MK4 (from the extension cabling) into A/B on the front face plate and left 3 unconnected. I believe 3 is only used for voice. I’ve then plugged my DSL modem into an extension and it’s working fine. Does that sound ok?
Thanks!
Hello,
Yes, that should be fine, providing that the old extension wiring is sound. The proof is that the DSL works!
Pin 3 is used for “the bell wire”, which assists certain telephone devices to ring if the current from 2 and 5 is not sufficient. It’s hardly used at all these days, and does not help DSL cleanliness as it can attract interference. Rob
Thanks Rob. It all seems to be working more or less as it was before. I still have a “bridge tap” fault on the line but this is also visible when plugged into the master socket with no extension wiring connected, so appears to be between the master socket and the external wiring cabinet.
Cheers,
Paul
OR engineer was in today to deal with a noisy line. First thing he did was to rip out my NTE5 /VDSL faceplate master and replace it with a NTE5C without the filtered faceplate/RJ11.
Strange, as he’d already acknowledged that the fault was external.
Anyway, he cleared the fault and I set about reinstalling an extension, which is now refusing to work. Everything’s wired as it should be/as it was, but I’m getting nothing.
Would it be safe to assume that he’s fitted a faulty socket? Is there an easy way to test it?
Thanks
qbs
Hello,
When you say “getting nothing”, is that no broadband, no voice, or both?
Basic stuff:- try reterminating the extension cabling on pins 2 and 5, or via the cam-locks. The only way of testing is to take the front cover off, test the test socket behind it, then see if the front plate works or not. The cam-locks can look engaged on the cable but sometimes are not.
You could also try different pairs of the cable to your extension socket in case the cores of the original pair have been damaged in the socket replacement work..
Find some spare cable and run some direct from the face plate 2 and 5, thereby isolating your cabling for test purposes.
Failing all that, it’s maybe time to get them back. They are not mandated to get your extension working, but the should provide equipment fit for purpose to allow you to do this.
I hope that this helps.
Rob
Thanks Rob
Nothing as in no voice, broadband or even a crackle or two. I’d be as well with it plugged into my pocket!
I’ve already done continuity checks on the cores and they’re ok. To eliminate everything possible, I made a foot long extension, and still nothing. I can’t believe that my slave has suddenly given up the ghost, as there’s nothing in it to fail, and again, I’ve checked pin to pin continuity as well as eliminating cross pin continuity.
I can clearly see the wires have penetrated all the way through the cam lock connectors and they’re properly latched. Only thing I haven’t tried is doubling the wire over on itself and see if it bites.
In terms of getting OR back, I’ll give it a few days to see if I get my broadband speed back. It’s not brilliant at present and takes an age to get back on if I reboot the system.
Rather than risk the OR charge, I’ll probably opt for a trip to eBay. A 5C with a VDSL faceplate for about £10 seems like less hassle.
On a different matter, there was a discussion earlier concerning where OR’s responsibility starts/finishes. Plusnet refer to “internal wiring” which includes everything within your property, including the master socket. That said, the catch all is there to cover physical damage caused by the home owner, but also includes things like damp, pest damage etc etc etc. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to allow for damage done by OR
PS Just realised I posted in the wrong place. Please delete the other post.
Thanks
qbs
Thanks Rob
Nothing as in no voice, broadband or even a crackle or two. I’d be as well with it plugged into my pocket!
I’ve already done continuity checks on the cores and they’re ok. To eliminate everything possible, I made a foot long extension, and still nothing. I can’t believe that my slave has suddenly given up the ghost, as there’s nothing in it to fail, and again, I’ve checked pin to pin continuity as well as eliminating cross pin continuity.
I can clearly see the wires have penetrated all the way through the cam lock connectors and they’re properly latched. Only thing I haven’t tried is doubling the wire over on itself and see if it bites.
In terms of getting OR back, I’ll give it a few days to see if I get my broadband speed back. It’s not brilliant at present and takes an age to get back on if I reboot the system.
Rather than risk the OR charge, I’ll probably opt for a trip to eBay. A 5C with a VDSL faceplate for about £10 seems like less hassle.
On a different matter, there was a discussion earlier concerning where OR’s responsibility starts/finishes. Plusnet refer to “internal wiring” which includes everything within your property, including the master socket. That said, the catch all is there to cover physical damage caused by the home owner, but also includes things like damp, pest damage etc etc etc. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to allow for damage done by OR.
An interesting update. Thank-you. Sadly, much stuff is made in The Far East “down to a price” rather than “up to a standard”, and out-of-box failures are quite common.
My recommendation is to report the issue to your provider, who will forward to Openreach.
Only if/when this does not progress a fix would I “go DIY”.
As to the demarcation and responsibility in respect of master sockets and wiring, opinions continue to vary.
Rob
One step forward, two steps back.
At around 03:00 this morning, my broadband speed was dropped from around 22Mbps to 17Mbps – presumably DLM, as I was in the land of nod, as was my desktop – and the SNR on the download increased from 3dB to 6dB. I assume the line’s still relearning so it should eventually settle. However, looking at the event log, my router’s been struggling to connect, taking much longer and throwing more errors than usual.
Later, I decided to have yet another look at the extension problem. Close inspection of the tails showed very poor penetration through the insulation, so I tried stripping the tails, and hey presto, the extension came alive. As you said “down to a price” comes at a cost. Quality control at point of use isn’t ideal.
Then, having boxed everything back up, I found my connection speed had dropped to around 12Mbps. Doesn’t make sense, as the only thing that’s changed is the master socket from filtered to unfiltered. Same cables, same slave box.
So I removed the extension and my connection speed’s gone back up to 17Mbps.
If only OR had kept his mitts off my master socket, I wouldn’t be having these problems!
Hello again,
Oh dear – have you tried plugging straight into the filtered faceplate ADSL socket? If that doesn’t work, I would recommend going back to your provider and mobilising Openreach to come to site and do a pair quality test.
Rob
Afternoon Rob
NTE5 /VDSL faceplate master was replaced with a NTE5C without the filtered faceplate/RJ11.
Current setup is filter plugged into master and phone and RJ11 into filter. Only difference from before OR is that I have a dangly (inferior) filter and extension running from cam locks rather than IDC’s, though I can’t for the life of me see what difference the extension connection should make.
Just to eliminate the improbable, I ventured under the floor and re-routed a spare cable I laid in a few years ago, intending to move the master. At my age, crawling around in an 18″ floor void, probably isn’t the best idea, and that’s definitely (probably) the last time I’ll be doing that.
That’s all terminated now and it’s not made a whit of difference – still screaming along at around 12Mbps. I’ve given myself enough free cable to relocate the router and desktop to the hall, to minimise OR access to the house. Not impressed with the half mask nor the fact that one minute, he’s lying in the road, then down a pit, then in my hallway, and reeking of fags to boot.
DLM this morning didn’t change anything
02:14:36, 28 Nov. ( 8933.350000) PPPoE is up - Down Rate=12492Kbps, Up Rate=2562Kbps; SNR Margin Down=6.5dB, Up=6.1dB
The event log was busy this morning
08:35:43, 28 Nov. (31800.420000) Wire Lan Port 1 down
08:34:43, 28 Nov. (31740.420000) Wire Lan Port 1 up
08:34:40, 28 Nov. (31737.420000) Wire Lan Port 1 down
08:33:31, 28 Nov. (31668.420000) Wire Lan Port 1 up
08:33:28, 28 Nov. (31665.420000) Wire Lan Port 1 down
08:29:58, 28 Nov. (31455.420000) Wire Lan Port 1 up
08:29:55, 28 Nov. (31452.420000) Wire Lan Port 1 down
08:29:07, 28 Nov. (31404.420000) Wire Lan Port 1 up
08:29:04, 28 Nov. (31401.420000) Wire Lan Port 1 down
04:13:30, 28 Nov. IN: BLOCK [4] Illegal packet options (TCP [223.167.110.183]:54601->[147.147.109.35]:18439 on ppp3)
That carried on until I switched on at around 10:00
I spoke to Plusnet yesterday and they could see masses of errors and problems with the router connecting so they’re getting OR out again on Tuesday.
qbs
Well OR’s been and gone. Arrived to fix a noisy line fault! PN or OR mis-communication, so he wasn’t authorised etc etc. But that didn’t stop him completely. He reckoned the previous guy hadn’t set the line up for FTTC, so 10 minutes or so on his mobile and I’m up to 18Mbps. Still not there and with a high SNR on the download side, but I’ll leave it overnight to see what DLM does before I get back onto PN.
I’ve also got a shiny new 5c with VDSL faceplate with ethernet/phone, so not a totally wasted day.
That’s better news. Sadly, your experience isn’t uncommon in terms of diligence of OR people, and msi-communication.
Is “PN” Plusnet? Generally, I’ve found them to be one of the better ISPs from the customer service side. I have had them adjust line management setting for a customer whilst I’ve been on the phone to them in the past, to some success.
Yes. PN=Plusnet. Customer service isn’t so great at the moment with people working from home. Much slower and I suspect more limited in what they can do tweak wise.
No DLM last night so I’ll give it another day before I contact them again. I’m not clear on what remains to be done by OR, but the (good) guy yesterday said it needed another engineer to finish off.
I used to get 30-45 min.wait times,but it was worth it when someone answered, contrasting with other ISPs, particularly the one full of Talk…
It might be worth emphasising that, although the extension connections are on the back, THEY WON’T WORK UNLESS THE FRONT IS FITTED. This is obvious, since that’s how lineboxes have always worked, but if you’ve connected an extension and think you’ll check it works before you put that difficult-to-unclip front panel back, you’ll find it doesn’t and you’ll feel a right idiot when you realise why 🙂
Oh yes…. Excellent point, thanks. This happens regularly to me, I’m ashamed to say.
Lots of really good info here so thanks for sharing. Having had the new MK4 fitted the engineer advised that I’d need to run a separate cable to a data point if I want to move the router which is fair enough and I understand I need to use the A and B on my side. The existing extension cable has been connected for voice but it has at least 2 spare wires in it. Would it be possible to to use the wires within the same cable to create a data point for the router beside the extension socket or do I need to use a separate cable for this. Floors are concrete so not straight forward to do as everything runs through the walls!
Thanks
Robert
Hello,
You could try these wires and see what kind of response you get. The cable is below the specification for running data, and may be poor quality/have poor standard of jointing or routing.
Personally, I would always run a new cable, ideally a Cat5e, with the “blue” pair terminated onto “A and B” of the filtered face plate, and then terminated on the “blue” pins (4 and 5, I think) of and RJ45 socket. Your RJ11 modem lead will fit straight into the RJ45 (even though it is smaller). In respect of cabling, I almost always use external-grade (black sheathed) Cat5e cable, and run it discreetly around the exterior of the property.
Thanks for such a prompt reply. The extension is in a room across the hall so might try using the existing cable as a pull through. Could Cat6 be used as I helped my mate run some external Cat6 and he has loads left. 🙂
Fee free to ignore but out if interest regarding the cable spec, data had previously been running along this cable to the extension socket as I’d had the router there for a while. Has it just always been lower spec for data, or is it to do with which wires/twisted pairs are involved? Just curious.
Thanks
Robert
Cat 6 would be fine, but it is less bendy than CW1308 as it has a “spine” to separate the pairs. It’s also of a thicker cross-section. Furthermore, there is trunking produced by D-Line that can work well cosmetically. B and Q and Screwfix stock the white version, but wholesalers such as TLC stock other colours.
Rgearding data over the CW1308:- yes, of course it has come to your premises via pairs in a similar spec. cable, so it could be fine to use. However, it adds another aspect of potential faults. I always try and run data cable from A and B or from router RJ45 ports. A key aspect in domestic installations is that some weird and wonderful stuff gets slung in, out of sight, with poor but imaginative joints and lots of stray wires. Many engineers avoid dealing with domestic work…
Hi There ,I have just replaced an old BT master socket with a new Openreach Master socket which has a phone line and saparate one for internet. The phone line works fine but when i connect the internet nothing , if i plug in filter into phone line then plug in internet plug into the filter then the internet works fine, why is that when i plug internet plug directly in to Openreach Master socket internet want work?
You may have a faulty socket or faulty hub cable. I don’t quite understand what you are saying in your post, but please be aware that there will only be a broadband service from the small socket on the front of the faceplate, ir terminals A and B inside the faceplate.
Hi Rob, On these new units do I still need to use a micro filter? I’m assuming not but the Broadband help desk are telling me I do
The filtering is done at the socket, so no microfilters required on voice extensions.
I am finding that every so often my ADSL performance falls away with poor SNR. A quick Quiet Line test reveals much crackling noise. At this point I remove the 5C Mk4 faceplate (and the insulating tape that holds it securely in place!), then insert & remove again several times. So far this has always cleared the fault. I cannot see any obvious corrosion (or dead spiders) on the contacts but clearly a poor connection must develop over the course of days or weeks. Am I alone with this problem? Is there a contact cleaning product I could use?
It is as easy to replace the whole lot, as genuine ones are below £10.00 on eBay/Amazon, having fallen out of the back of an Openreach van…
There were a few out-of-box failure issues with these in the early days, an my observation is that most modern hardware cannot actually be trusted to have passed suitable quality assurance tests. In short, “stuff ain’t made how it used to be”.
In respect of the front not fitting, I would recommend bending the fixing prongs on the front plate. It is, however, fundamentally a poor design.
Thanks for reply. How I miss the GPO! This is my second 5C Mk4. I replaced the OR supplied box with one I bought from Run-IT-Direct (new style with clear plastic cams and a tighter fit). It’s just annoying. The socket is the very first thing I check when my Plusnet vanilla ADSL (now at a reported maximum of almost 20000 … which is more than contracted for back in the day!) drops down to zilch. Jiggling it about has always fixed the problem so far. I am happy with the insulating tape for now! And yes, it is a wonder that any of this stuff works at all! Currently using a TP-Link Archer VR400 which is OK but I do wish they’d update their firmwares in the same way that Netgear do to fix security issues … I can’t believe there aren’t any. Many thanks. EXP
You’re welcome. Is there any possibility of a dodgy core in one of the legs of the incoming cable?
As long as it works I’m happy. Dodgy? Everything about my installaton is dodgy … the drop wires date from before the flood. I was promised in 1986 that the riser from the pavement would be conduited … it still blows in the wind and tempts passing children and drunks. There’s an old street cabinet that’s often left unlocked … and so on and so on. A shared (with neighbour) external junction box 3 m up cable-tied to a drainpipe that must really love the rain. And bananas hanging from the trees … EXP
I’m installing an Openreach Master Socket 5C MK4. The grey BT cable into my house, built in 1970, has 4 wires, coloured Orange, Blue, Green and Brown. Using the Orange and Blue pair, which colour goes to the “A” and “B” terminals on the Master Socket back plate, or doesn’t it matter?
Hello,
It doesn’t matter. Long ago, in the days of “party lines”, it did. But no more.
Builder cut my cable so have to move Mk 4 master socket , cable colours are green ,blue ,brown,orange. I’ve connected orange to A and blue to B phone ok but no broadband ??
Most strange. If you have a dial tone, you should have broadband. Usually, when one of the two wires is disconnected, there’s no phone, but broadband works (slowly), which is the opposite of what you have. Check that your router’s cord is fully plugged into the faceplate socket, and try restarting it. Is there a power light on the router showing power coming in? Even us engineers have to ask ourselves the basic stuff like this!
Hi There, i have this full face-plate and am having major SNR issues . SNR will jump dramatically at similar times each day (see graph on link). I also have line drops, sometimes 1 or two per day.
I have tried to identify if anything at my property is causing it, but can find nothing that coincides with the SNR spikes/drops. What can cause such SNR spikes and falls ? and more importantly, how do i get a stable SNR ?
oops, here the link to my SNR graph.
https://i.postimg.cc/D0Ts6m78/SNR-WTF.png
This really is the domain of the provider. There is little you can do other than persist with them. There could be many factors which affect the quality of your service.
From memory, they can tweak the SNR from their end. Less-intelligent ones will try and point the finger back at your premises wiring (even if you are straight onto the test port of the socket), router (even if it’s theirs), etc, etc, then remind you that if and Openreach person attends and finds no fault, then you will be charged.
The ideal situation would be for a skilled customer service operative to spot the issues and send a competent Openreach person. Sadly there is no assurance of encountering either
Thanks Rob
i know i still have a box of old faceplates buried somewhere and i will for experimentation sake, try them and see if anything changes .
many thanks
Always a good idea to try a basic hardware swap. I’ve had a couple of shiny new 5C’s with strange issues.
thanks, after reading this post,
https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Anyone-with-a-BT-Openreach-NTE5C-Mk4-Faceplate-should-change/td-p/1687208
its at least worth a try…. they dont make’m like they used to…as they say.
I just had a bit of a eureka!! moment…. hopefully this will help others….
The one thing i never tested was our cordless house phone (duh!).
…and so what I did was , just for fun, was to “double micro-filter” the phone-line socket (but leaving the VDSL socket untouched).
…and guess what, immediately the SNR instantly dropped, quite dramatically!!
SNR went from 9.3 down to 6.0 !!
For double-micro-filtering, I tried 4 different micro-filters, each having mixed results. The best one turned out to be an ‘unbranded’ type with marked with only, ADSL SPLITTER – PBS-58043-C
This was the one that worked in reducing SNR the most. And yes, the phone still works fine…
just need to see if i can tweak it a little more to find that 2.8 SNR sweetspot that I got for 2 hours….
Hi Rob,
I’ve moved to a property thar hasn’t got a master sockect. Looks like a pair of speaker wires connected outside and into the loft, where a small BT socket is connected before going to a room where an extension lead is used to connect to a router. Loosing internet intermittently (quite often having to reset router) presumably because of this.
When I moved in, I just went with previous (TalkTalk) as was just a case of connecting router myself.
Question is, who would be responsible for putting a Master socket?
Would this be free or would I have to pay?
Hello,
If the “speaker wire” is like the “drop wire” described in this blog…
https://telecomgreen.co.uk/home-phone-repair/old-grey-bt-drop-wire-some-faq/
… then TalkTalk could ask Openreach to replace it and fit a master socket at the same time. However, getting someone to understand the requirement may be challenging. This should all be free.
This kind of dropwire, despite being very strong, has been known to mysteriously fall down in the middle of the night…. 🙂
This tends to bring matters to a head, and Openreach are then mobilised rapidly to get your service restored, by means of the latest dropwire and a new master socket.
Rob.
Thank you for the quick reply and a nice straight forward solution
You’re welcome. Dealing with customer service departments,and getting them to understand a situation that is “off-script” may be the biggest issue. It might be better to approach it with them by saying that you have intermittent broadband service, They will,of course, threaten charging the £160.00 Openreach call-out charge if the fault is with your equipment. However, in the case you’ve described, the dropwire clearly needs changing, which Openreach now do as a standard upgrade procedure.
Hi can you help please?
I’m about to change from Virginmedia to openreach FTTC data only and my yet to arrive ZEN modem will do the VOIP to analog phone conversion.
I assume Openreach will install some sort of NTE (5c maybe) but can you tell me which socket it is likely to have on my side. Is it still a standard BT phone jack even though its digital voice or will it be an RJ45/ethernet?
I want to get my VDSL extension cable in place early as my ZEN go-live date is the same as the openreach install date.
Thanks
Bob
Hopefully, I’ve understood your question correctly…
You will probably get an NTE5C, with BT and RJ45 outlets on the faceplate, plus a filtered DSL output on pins A and B on the customer side, to which you can connect the “blue” pair on a Cat5e/^ cable and feed a data outlet.
Hi Rob, Thanks for your speedy reply. Apolgies if my question might not be clear.
I was not expecting there to be two sockets as the red connection pair should only go to the cabinet and not on to the exchange so only one socket needed with perhaps the possibility of a fixed wire coming out from the blue pair connector.
I’m expecting a single cable to go from the socket on the NTE5C to my modem and my analogue phone to plug into the modem. So no need for filtering(?)
If as you suggest there might be a BT and Rj45, what would each be for?
I suppose it is just possible that Openreach are still supplying analogue connections to the exchange as we might have a few years yet before analogue switch off in my area (Romsey hants)
Hello,
I’m still struggling to understand a couple of points. Sorry!
If you are getting a fibre to the cabinet connection, then the socket port functions are as per my blog descriptions. The BT plug socket provides the filtered voice service. The RJ11 provides the filtered DSL (broadband). Terminals A and B on the customer side also provide a filtered DSL supply for hard-wiring to an RJ45/RJ11 socket via Cat5e/Cat6 cable, terminated on the “blue” pair (4 and 5).
I hope that this helps.
Thanks for your reply. the basis for my question is that a) Analogue phones are soon to be switched off and so I assumed that open reach would no longer be installing a dual socket for a digital only service. b) that I have seen online numerous pictures of a faceplate on an NTE5C that only had a single shuttered socket (so I could not see what type it was) and c) several comments that dual socket faceplates were not the correct type to physically fit onto an NTE5C as the faceplates were screw on and the NTE5C uses clip on faceplates.
a and b are correct, c might not be.
It sounds like you believe there are still dual socket faceplates and that openreach may well still be installing them.
My understanding is that there is no role for a filter in a DSL only installation and logically the single faceplate socket might be rj45 into which I would plug an rj45 or rj11 plug.
My question is to verify (or not) my assumption.
An online chat with Zen over the weekend revealed that they don’t know what will be fitted by Openreach either.
Apologies if I am being dense but just trying to buy the correct type of cable in advance of the installation.
TIA Bob
hi rob got 80.3 mbps to house but on testsocket i onlyget 53.3 on speed test
Hello,
Where are you getting your “to the house” measurement from? This is normally done from the test socket of the NTE5 (having removed the front cover/filter plate and using a micro filter.
Same outcome as many others. BT replaced master socket with Mk 4 version and speed increased 35+% for download and 50% for upload. Live in a rural area 0.5 and 0.75 miles from fibre cabinet.
Great news. Thanks for sharing this!
Hi Rob,
Any idea who would be a reliable supplier of the MK4. I’ve heard people complain about being sold older versions. How many updates of the MK4 have there been? Thanks
There are plenty on eBay, all appearing to be recent and genuine. The source could be related to the rear door locks on Openreach vans being poor…. 🙂
If a seller seems reliable, genuine, and has sold plenty of these, I’d suggest going with them.
Early ones had dark red push-down connectors, and were occasionally problematic. Later ones had clear plastic connectors, and I’ve not heard of any problems, nor of any Far Eastern replicas being supplied.
Rob.
So, as we move towards Digital Voice in 2024, we won’t need a ‘phone socket’ on the faceplate for an FTTC connection. So what does Openreach plan to install to replace the MK4 faceplate? If they don’t, there will be an interesting number of callers who say “my phone doesn’t work” after a DV conversion!
Thanks for the question. It’s probably about time I blogged on this topic.
All of the more recent routers have a BT-type line cord socket built in, which serves exactly the same purpose as the one on a filtered faceplate, but delivers the voice service via VOIP technology. Plug in decent cordless base station into this socket (I prefer Panasonic brand), and you can have service throughout the average-to-large-sized property.
Should you need any of your hard-wired sockets (previously connected to your master socket), then addition of a simple “male/male” BT line cord will allow you to connect the the telephone port on the router with your faceplate socket. The “oomph” (technically “REN”) from the router is good enough to ring bells on several telephones.
I hope that this helps.
Rob