BT dropwire telephone cable – we shouldn’t really be talking about it, as it runs from the master socket onto the BT (more correctly Openreach) network. Of course, no-one ever gets involved with that side of the network, do they…?
This blog, therefore, should be seen to serve as purely educational and theoretical, the sort of stuff useful for obscure pub quiz questions. (That’ s the official bit over with.)
So, Some FAQ
Why “Drop Wire”?
A traditional, long-established telecommunications term for some wire that “drops” from an “overhead” (pole) to your premises.
Isn’t It Just Like Any Other Wire?
No. It can run through thin air unsupported for up to (officially) 68 metres, so has to be strong and weatherproof. Therefore, it has a thick black sheath, is resistant to sunlight-induced decay and moisture, and contains three high-tensile steel wires which serve to carry the weight of the cable and stop it drooping excessively and/or snapping. These are weight-bearing only, very strong, and don’t carry signals. Overall, it’s so tough, you could probably tow a van with it. Someone probably has.
Why Are The Colours Different To Internal Cables?
(No idea! They just are, right? Get over it!). However, it’s not complex. The first pair normally used are orange and white (pairs are easy to identify as they are twisted together). The second pair are very easy to remember – Green and Black, also the name of a brand of posh chocolate.
What Do I Need To Know About Handling It?
If (in theory, of course…) you had to strip it for jointing, then the sheath is seriously tough. Therefore, it is very easy to cut through a vital wire and damage it when trying to strip it. (Ask me how I know.) Then, when you’ve broken the sheath, it’s hard to pull it back from the wires to gain access. Once bared off (as per my photo), the steel span wires are exposed. These are more like sharp, bendy needles than wires, and can seriously hurt you. BT have produced a small cover (Dropwire Sheath – the bullet-shaped thing in the photo above) to cover the bare ends for this very reason. You will need a very good pair of cutters to sever them, and they you may be left with short and nasty pieces. Take care.
Surely There Must Be An Easier Way?
Yes. BT designed a clever tool (in the picture above) which slices open the dropwire lengthways, not crossways. There is also a piece of “rip cord” contained in the cable (bright white, also in photo), but I’ve never been able to make it work. However, stripping BT Dropwire Telephone Cable with the tool takes seconds. Unfortunately, the tools are at least £15.00, so not really viable for a DIY person (not that you’d be messing with the BT/Openreach network anyway, would you now?)
How Do I Joint It?
Jelly crimps inside a Dexgreen or 3M-type enclosure. It makes a formidable joint, and is used by Openreach. A search for “Dexgreen Dexseal” should take you there.
Does It Bend?
Not easily due to it’s thick sheath. Bear this in mind when running it into socket back-boxes. It’s designed to go in a straight line, through the air, for a long way. If you have to fit in somewhere tight, strip the sheath back first.
How Do I Secure It To Masonry?
Use good-quality P-clips. Beware that some P-clip nails seem to be made from aluminium bend too easily and generate much bad language. Where clips won’t work, use masonry mounts hammered into pre-drilled holes with black cable ties. Possibly a bit of “overkill”, but often faster than clips and far more effective. Screwfix stock them.
Can I Buy Dropwire and Joints?
Yes, it’s all freely available on eBay, Amazon,etc.
But My Dropwire Is Thin and Grey…
This wire was superseded over thirty years ago, and is known to slow broadband signals down due to it’s design. It will now be old enough to have cracks in it which let in water and cause line noise. However, Openreach will charge you to renew it, even though it’s their hardware (no – I don’t understand, either). This is, of course, unless it falls down on it’s own, which has been known to happen. (Well, sort of “on it’s own”…)
Deep Secret 1
Most telecommunications cable has a 0.5mm diameter core. Some dropwire (notably dropwire 12) has 0.9mm core. The two sizes won’t punch down on the same connector pin together, so you would need to be clever with jelly crimps and 0.5 mm wire. I found this out the hard way, early in my engineering career.
Deep Secret 2
Intermittent Faults on Dropwire. Often caused by tree branches rubbing against it in the wind. Line noise will be heard more clearly in windy weather. Only an analogue meter will pick this up, the occasional needle swing showing high-resistance or a short as the branch moves,particularly when wet. It takes a lot to damage dropwire like this, but it has been known, due to several years of rubbing. Make sure it’s not a tree on your land, or you will be charged for the repair.
Can You Help?
If I have time, which I have less and less of these days.
However, here’s the deal – I give the advice, you leave some feedback on Facebook or Google. Agreed? Super! I can also find independent engineers across the UK if you are struggling, and the same deal applies. They will have both tools and experience in handling BT dropwire telephone cable.
Good read mate
I’m looking to move my Ntc5 socket which was located in a ridiculous position in the house.
The drop wire was connected to the socket directly from the pole and it has an orange, white, black and green wire, and 3 x yellow wires which I assume are the steel span wires?
I wanted to know which wire to use to extend the socket?
There was enough of this black drop wire to bring it almost 10 meters in the house, is this a problem?
Good read mate
>Thanks!
I’m looking to move my Ntc5 socket which was located in a ridiculous position in the house.
>They often are!
The drop wire was connected to the socket directly from the pole and it has an orange, white, black and green wire, and 3 x yellow wires which I assume are the steel span wires?
>Yes. They feel stiffer than the copper pairs.
I wanted to know which wire to use to extend the socket?
>A bit confused here – if the current active circuit is on the org/wt pair, then for continuity, use that. Likewise with the gn/bk
There was enough of this black drop wire to bring it almost 10 meters in the house, is this a problem?
>Not that I can think of! It’s robust stuff.
Rob
The drop wire shouldn’t run for more than a meter in the house due to the fumes given off from the black casing in the event of a fire.
This is information from a training course as an apprentice many years ago, I assume it’s still valid.
Thank-you for the information. I wouldn’t want to run it in a house anyway due to it’s unsightliness and lack of bendability.
I need to reroute an underground BT cable to a different entry on the front of my house (including BT 101a and BT 25 capping) . Is this still called a dropwire? What type of sealed connection can I use and what type of cable to extend?
Many Thanks
Dan M
Mirfield, West Yorks
Hello,
You are correct in your specifications for the cable entry enclosure!
You could also terminate the cable using jelly crimps in a BT68B box (grey, oblong,wall-mounted).
Dropwire is normally used on overhead installations. For underground direct burial you need CW1198 cable. If you are jointing, you need a “mechanical joint closure”. These can be buried. Again, use jelly crimps to joint the cable cores.
https://passcomm.co.uk/catalog/mjc-mechanical-joint-closure/
Google any of the above component names to find out more.
Rob
Hi Rob.
Can you recommend anyone who could by pass my carrier pole and extend dropwire to the apex of the house. I live in TW12 area
Hello,
I’m not quite sure what you mean, but I’ll reply via email regarding a contact who may have a contact on that sideof town.
Rob
Hi Rob
Can you tell me the diameter of the drop cable used by Openreach to connect a new house? Is it always the same? Is it CW1411? Where can I get a sample of the cable used? The house is in an area which has fibre to the cabinet. There is a telegraph pole on the boundary of the property but the cable will need to run down the pole and through Openreach approved ducting in order to enter the house below ground level through a gasket. The gasket insert has to have a hole in it the exact size of the cable because the house will be a passiv house and must be airtight. The gasket insert will have other holes for other supplies and I am told they are expensive to make so it is important the correct diameter is specified to fit the cable.
Hello,
Probably CW1411 or “Dropwire 10B”.
Data sheet with external diameter here:-
https://britishcablescompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Dropwire-10B-a.pdf
Hi, The drop wire ends under the eaves in a little box,
then theres an old thin double wire dangling loosely in the wind,
down and through the window edge to the master box.
Should the wire to the master box be more substantial and stapled fast
down the wall. The property is 40 yrs old , would they replace it.
If it works, they don’t replace it unless it fails.
If it’s the “parallel conductor” Drop wire No 6…
https://www.tklink.co.uk/products/railway-specific-products/drop-wire/no.6-drop-wire-2-core-cw1247-no.6/
…then it is likely to slow ADSL down, although such a short length won’t have a significant effect
I’d guess that there may be corrosion on the joint in the small external box. This may be slowing things down.
I’ve known of this ancient cable mysteriously fail in the middle of the night for no explicable reason, forcing Openreach to come and replace it.
Some engineers have even suggested that a frustrated customer may have done this to force replacement.
I couldn’t possibly comment… 😉
Hi Rob,
I’ve had numerous ISPs and they all have a dismal performance when it comes to internet broadband. The BT dropwire comes under ground and then up the side of the old lounge wall into the BT66 connection box. From here a thinner black cable goes through the window frame and into the lounge. I’m doing some renovation work which means the lounge becomes the kitchen and the master socket will have to be re-located into the study. My plan was to buy a new dropwire to the study. I’m having my walls insulated on the outside (external wall insulation using EPS rather than celotex/recticel!) so the plan was to run some ‘conduit’ up the brick wall before the insulation goes on. Conduit will run all the way up into the eaves and then terminate in the attic allowing the cable to be changed later with fibre-optic (I can dream….).
1) The conduit needs to be flexible in order to bend into the attic space so I was going to use some left over underfloor heating pipe (PEX/Aluminium/PEX ). Would the aluminium cause interference with the signal in the cable?
2) The current Bt66 box is dire (full of spiders etc). Is there anything better I could get?
3) What’s the best dropwire I can get in terms of signal and possible future proofing? I’ve bought the stuff off ebay before which was labelled as official BT cable and it wasn’t as durable as the BT stuff.
I’d like my side of BT66 box to be up to scratch before I call out the ISP engineer as I’m sure they’d like my renovation work get the blame for the poor signal. I’m sure it’s to do with the underground cable as it’s always worse after it’s rained!
Thanks in advance Rob!
Hello,
You asked…
1) The conduit needs to be flexible in order to bend into the attic space so I was going to use some left over underfloor heating pipe (PEX/Aluminium/PEX ). Would the aluminium cause interference with the signal in the cable?
>It shouldn’t do, but my instinct would be to go for 20 or 25mm electricians plastic conduit with flexi bits for the bends. A mooch around electrical suppliers on-line may be helpful
2) The current Bt66 box is dire (full of spiders etc). Is there anything better I could get?
>They are famous for being spider refuges. There’s nothing else really. The cables are jointed with sealed jelly crimps, so unaffected by wildlife and their associated stuff. They just look messy.
3) What’s the best dropwire I can get in terms of signal and possible future proofing? I’ve bought the stuff off ebay before which was labelled as official BT cable and it wasn’t as durable as the BT stuff.
>Drop wire 10 is the stuff. The rear doors on Openreach vans don’t seem very secure these days, and lots of genuine hardware and cable seems to find it’s way onto eBay.
I’m sure it’s to do with the underground cable as it’s always worse after it’s rained!
>This points to something on the Openreach infrastructure side. Sadly, intermittent faults like this are hard to trace and rectify.
Thanks in advance Rob!
>No problem
I`d suggest that the solid colours (as opposed to striped) of the individual wires in a dropwire make it easier for engineers working under low lighting conditions
A very good point! Up a pole or down a hole, you need all the help you can get. Furthermore, some banding on cables can have poor colour reproduction.
Hello , we managed to cut through some drop wire cable that was buried in the garden – it’s 5 pair. Can you give me the code to re-order some more. Many thanks.
Oh dear! Commiserations.
It won’t be dropwire (which runs from poles), but probably armoured underground cable.
If you Google “CW1128 armoured 5-par cable”, it should take you to some results.
Here’s one…
https://www.armouredcable.net/armoured-5-pair-telephone-cable.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI897p77Tx5QIVCbLtCh0K_wHEEAQYAyABEgIzWfD_BwE
You have not mentioned jointing. If you need any help, please come back to me, as I have many independent engineer contacts across the UK. Rob.
Hi Rob,
I have an old connection box in my house, like this https://www.britishtelephones.com/wiring/pictures/oldsocket.jpg. If I want to replace this with a master socket, do the external wires (green, black, white, orange, from the drop cable) connect directly to the master socket?
Thanks,
David
Hello,
Yes they do. When you take the lid off (they are often sealed with decades of paint!) you will see that only one pair are connected. Usually, this is the orange and white pair. Simply terminate those on the rear terminals of your new master socket. Please be aware that the conductor is 0.9mm diameter, in contrast to the normal 0.5mm of other cables, so may be hard to punch down. There is a slight chance that cable other than dropwire has been used. In which case, you will need to use the blue and orange pair (or whatever has been used).
I hope that this helps.
Rob
That’s great, thank you so much.
If I terminate the orange and white pair on the new master socket, what do I do with the green and black? Do they just get left tucked inside the socket box?
Thanks again!
Yes indeed. Twist them together or stow them in an equally-neat manner. Don’t cut them short – you never know when they might be needed!
Meanwhile, I’m trying to boost my “reviews” on Google/Facebook. Can you help?
If this information has been useful, please consider leaving some feedback via the following links. It helps me to justify spending time on replies. Thanks in anticipation. Rob
https://goo.gl/maps/p1n9wxi5T6p
http://www.facebook.com/telecomgreen
twitter.com/phone_engineers
Thanks!
Rob
Hi Rob, great resource. I’m trying to relocate my master socket and do anything I can to improve my woeful internet speed.
My dropwire ends up in a ratty little round plastic junction box and there are only two tiny wires, one white and one orange. from there an equally naff wire comes through the wall and into the ancient master socket.
My plan is to relocate the dropwire so that it comes straight through the lounge wall and into a shiny new mk4 master socket. My question is, can I take the dropwire straight to the new master socket or must I have a junction box outside before the cable comes through the wall?
Would appreciate your advice very much, Thanks, Ben
Hello,
Thanks for the kind words.
The Mk4 master socket uses a tool-less connection which may struggle with the drop wire if it is 0.9mm diameter. However,it’s worth a try, although the Mk4 seems to be designed around 0.5mm diameter “lead in” (external) cable. As the Mk4 is generally a flimsy-built thing, my preference would be to joint the dropwire with jelly crimps onto black-sheathed “lead in” cable, then use the tool-less connection.
Meanwhile, a basic question:- is there enough length on the current drop wire to reach the new Mk4?
Rob
Thanks Rob, it should have enough length to get where I want it to go go but I won’t know for sure until I try.
I can cut some redundant wires off the drop wire now and see how they take with the MK4, then I can revert to using lead in wires if required I suppose.
Great advice, thanks very much, never occurred to me that there could be an issue marrying the external wires up to the master socket.
Assuming they do fit, I take it I am ok to bring the drop wire straight through the wall and into the back of the MK4?
I think you would probably manage to get the drop wire into the connectors. Going straight onto the back of the NTE5 is fine. Rob.
Thanks very much Rob, that’s reassuring to know.
Best regards
Ben
Hi Rob,
Sorry if this is a repeat of any of the questions above – first time doing anything like this! We are currently renovating our entire house. Due to this the current state is that the dropwire runs through the eaves and stops in the loft (4 cables – green, black, white, orange). It is not currently connected to any box. The previous master socket is now redundant. The new master socket would ideally be under the stairs and I would like all cables to be ran internally.
What is the best cable to join to the existing drop wire to run via internal chases (i.e. in conduit in walls) to the new master socket location? Dropwire 10 or other? If other, will the distance of c15m from where the existing dropwire stops to under the stairs matter?
Is there a proposed method / box required to join onto the existing dropwire?
Thanks in advance.
Hello,
BT/Openreach typically use a 78A or 80A jointing box in a situation like this.These are freely available on-line. CW1308-spec cable would be fine for the internal cable run. Connect to the orange/white pair – these are used as the first pair. Please come back to me if you need clarification. Rob.
Hi Rob,
Great web-page, very helpful, Thanks.
I recently had some renovations on my house to replace a flat roof which was where the drop wire from the pole entered my property. As we currently don’t use the phone line at present the builder worked round the cable and re-presented it after he had finished. Whilst I have faith in the builders roofing capabilities I suspect telephony and data comms are not his core skill.
Original drop wire now comes through into the attic and is jointed (orange wire to white with a blue trace & white wire to a blue with a white trace) to what looks like CW1308 cable using jelly crimps in a BT16a enclosure. The CW1308 cable then terminates in the master socket effectively where the blue wire with a white trace white is terminated on A IDC connector and the white wire with a blue trace terminated on the B.
Does this sound correct? And is there any way I can test this? I’d rather resolve any issues now rather than wait until I switch providers and need the line, when no doubt I’ll have filled the attic with junk that will restrict access to the BT16a enclosure.
Any guidance give is appreciated.
Thanks
Hello,
Thanks for your kind words. If you are able to leave some feedback on Google and/or Facebook, this helps others, and helps me to keep giving free advice.
Links here:-
https://goo.gl/maps/p1n9wxi5T6p
http://www.facebook.com/telecomgreen
twitter.com/phone_engineers
Your description is very good, and the configuration sounds suitable. Basic question:- have you plugged in a basic telephone and checked for a dial tone? If no tone, can you hear what sounds like the faint sound of waves on a far sea-shore (poetic!)? These point to a connection being good back to the exchange. If you are handy with a basic multi-meter, you may wish to set the range to DC and check for 50v across the pair. Current is measured in milliamps, so there is no risk of shock.
However, the circuit to the exchange may have been severed deliberately at some point on the Openreach network, so absence of voltage and sounds may not necessarily indicate a fault.
That’s about all I can advocate, I’m afraid, apart from checking that the builder has not physically damaged the cable(s), and making sure that the Openreach man can access the BT16a enclosure for testing.
I hope this helps.
Rob
Rob,
Thanks for the advice, I have an old wired telephone somewhere, I’ll give that a go. I suspect it was disconnected at exchange when I switched provider but worth a go.
I’ll stack stuff so as to leave access to the connection as best I can.
Feedback provided on Google.
No problem. Please be aware that some Openreach folks are unhappy about working in lofts, so making life as simple as possible will help matters.
Hi Rob,
I have two drop wires coming into my house from the telegraph pole, one towards the front that comes into a box at the top of the house, two wires then come from that box, one into upstairs of my house where my home phone and router is and the second wire goes down across the front of my house and on to the neighbours.
The second line from the pole comes into the same type of box but to towards the back of my house, this line goes through the brickwork of my house and into the roof space but seems to feed no phone socket anywhere. How can i tell if this line is live?
Long story short the signal for the wifi isn’t great as the only live line is upstairs, and we have to rely on boosters to get the signal through the house, so i need to get a drop line into the downstairs of the house.
a) Buy a longer drop wire and move the line to downstairs
b) If that 2nd line is live (which i’m unsure) replace that drop line? But how do i test if it’s live.
Many Thanks
Hello!
I have two drop wires coming into my house from the telegraph pole, one towards the front that comes into a box at the top of the house, two wires then come from that box, one into upstairs of my house where my home phone and router is and the second wire goes down across the front of my house and on to the neighbours.
>There was possibly a second line into the property in the past.
The second line from the pole comes into the same type of box but to towards the back of my house, this line goes through the brickwork of my house and into the roof space but seems to feed no phone socket anywhere. How can i tell if this line is live?
>Why do you need to know if it’s live? If, for example, you needed a second line, it would be up to Openreach to enliven it.
Long story short the signal for the wifi isn’t great as the only live line is upstairs, and we have to rely on boosters to get the signal through the house, so i need to get a drop line into the downstairs of the house.
>You need to find where your master socket is for this current line, and extend from it, or you could get an independent engineer to joint the cable and move the master socket.
a) Buy a longer drop wire and move the line to downstairs
>The dropwire simply brings the signal to the master socket, and is Openreach’s property. It is significantly different to internal cable, and should be left where it is. Extend from the master socket, or ask someone to move it. There’s more on moving the master socket in my other blogs
b) If that 2nd line is live (which i’m unsure) replace that drop line? But how do i test if it’s live.
It has no bearing on your issue, I’d humbly suggest!
There are are other ways of extending your wifi signal in your property. An independent engineer could assess your needs, your property, and make suggestions.
I hope that this helps.
Why not install Line extenders using devices that plug into the mains sockets. Something like TP-LINK TL-PA4010KIT V1.20 N600 POWERLINE STARTER KIT 2 PACK.
Available from Screwfix.
Hi great article if you have 2 lines coming in and the orange and white go to A B on master socket where would the green and black go
Many thanks
Thanks for your kind words.
The green and black are for a second line, and are simply coiled out of use for single-line applications. Thus, they only come into use if you ahve a second line, and hence a second master socket.
I hope that this helps!
Rob
What a great resource this site is; thanks for sharing your experience and expertise.
I have a very simple (maybe silly) question – you say that the dropwire doesn’t bend easily; I just want to sanity-check that it will bend around the corner of a building? Don’t want to buy a reel of cable that isn’t actually suitable! Thanks.
Hello,
Thanks for your generous comment!
Yes, dropwire 10 or 11 will bend around a corner of a building, but it won’t be as tight into the brickwork (and hence as neat) as external-grade black-sheathed CW1308. Dropwire is designed to hang in the air,hence the stiffening wires.
“CW1308” is a BT-specification for cable, covering both internal (white-sheathed), and black-sheathed (external) cable. It’s available via ebay or Amazon.
Thanks very much 🙂
Hi Rob,
Great Read definitely,
I am an electrician by trade and i have been asked to carry out a job to replace about 70m of Dropwire between a telegraph pole and a building as it has come down.
– This is on private land (can’t say too much) and i have had it confirmed it is not BT/ Openreach.
I have the ladder and can get the parts from a supplier.
My question is; How do I tension the wire effectively?
Obviously, 70m of cable will be very heavy at the top of the ladder.
I’m assuming, fix the dropwire to the building first using the eyebolt and clamp (twurly wurly), run it across the ground to the pole and then through some kind of pulley? to tension it?
Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Hello,
First of all, I have to make it clear that we do not condone working on Openreach’s equipment. You may find that they do actually own the equipment, even though it’s on private land. (End of “official bit”).
Mills Ltd supply lots of Openreach-standard installation hardware. You will probably need either “Pulley Dropwire 4”, or “Pulley Dropwire 6” (classic GPO descriptions!). Hopefully, the link below will help. Meanwhile I do have contact with ex-BT engineers with experience of “overheads” if you need help.
https://www.millsltd.com/pulley-dropwire-6.html
I have a tree damaged drop wire that is all but worn through by a tree on my own land. Can such a cable be repaired or will it need to be rerun from the pole to the house?
It will be best for it to be replaced entirely.
It’s probably an Openreach job, although some independent engineers might consider the work if the pole is sound, and the work can be done discreetly.
Hi Rob, just found this site and love the advice and comments from you. I have ordered a BT66B Box off eBay and have some BT Drop wire 1.5 cable that I am going to us to replace the old 30 year old thin wire that is currently attached to the drop wire going into the house. Any advice you can give me before i get started. The only problem I see is pulling the old thin cable out of the hole in the door surround with years of paint and inserting the new thicker cable into the existing hole and then connecting it up the the BT Master socket in the hallway.
Thanks for your kind comment.
First of all, any advice is purely theoretical – we don’t publicly endorse anyone touching Openreach’s network, namely anything from the master socket to the exchange. You knew that anyway, didn’t you? 🙂 However, we understand that some independent engineers do carry out moves and changes…
You have a BT66B, but please be aware that this is for internal jointing only. How ae you planning to joint the other end of the cable to the existing incoming Openreach cable?
Please be aware that dropwire and internal CW1308 cores are of differing diameters, so would need to be jointed via a screw terminal or jelly crimps. They cannot be punched down onto the same IDC connector.
Dropwire will need a 10mm-ish hole to go through the door frame. Simply use the existing hole as a pilot hole.
I hope that this helps. There is more on jointing cables on another of my blogs.
Rob
Hello Rob, thanks for this great site. Our net has dropped and we are trying to fix it ourselves! We have a drop wire, already sheathed previously, with six colours – blue, white with small blue bits, orange, white with orange, green, white with green bits. They are separate not twisted. Then we have the post-2012 interior extension with just blue, green, orange, brown. They seem to have come away from each other. I read here https://telephonesuk.org.uk/wiring-info/ that I needed to connect the blue to pin 2, orange to pin 5, brown to pin 3 and green to pin 4 (if used). I used their table and did that (with the relevant pins) but still no joy. Am I doing the connecting wrong (basically twisting the tiny wires around each other) or did I follow the wrong instructions entirely? Would be so grateful for help. Thanks!
Hello Rob, thanks for this great site.
>Thank-you. (Google/Facebook reviews always welcomed… 🙂 )
Our net has dropped and we are trying to fix it ourselves! We have a drop wire, already sheathed previously, with six colours – blue, white with small blue bits, orange, white with orange, green, white with green bits. They are separate not twisted.
>This is not the drop wire, based on the colours, but a “lead in” cable probably connected to the dropwire on the outside of the property.
Then we have the post-2012 interior extension with just blue, green, orange, brown.
>These are the recent colours, normally-paired “blue-orange” and “green-brown”
They seem to have come away from each other. I read here https://telephonesuk.org.uk/wiring-info/ that I needed to connect the blue to pin 2, orange to pin 5, brown to pin 3 and green to pin 4 (if used). I used their table and did that (with the relevant pins) but still no joy. Am I doing the connecting wrong (basically twisting the tiny wires around each other) or did I follow the wrong instructions entirely? Would be so grateful for help. Thanks!
>I have blogged elsewhere on this site on colours. Also on how to joint them. You only need to connect pins 2 and 5. Normally, the blue-white/white-blue pair are used first. In the other colour scheme, the blue/orange pair are used first. This is the cabling “convention” used by engineers to make life easier for everyone – it’s like driving on the left, or not using the pavement for high-speed cycling (the latter now widely disregarded). If someone has D.I.Y.-d the cabling, then anything goes (…aarrgghh!!). In that case, try each incoming pair until you get a dial tone. Polarity (i.e. which way round) of the live pair does not matter.
I hope that this helps.
Rob
Hello Rob, you provide the best source of clear information that I have found, thank you.
I am trying to improve the very poor broadband speed in my father’s 1960s house. An open reach engineer making the necessary exchange alteration from ASDL to fibre says there is a 30 mb/s measured connection speed into the house. The overhead drop wire 0.9mm orange and white cables terminate into a GPO connection box which is in good condition, as are the wires. However, there are currently 5 old telephone sockets (no obvious master) currently supplied from it. Four are connected via one internal wire into the connection box while a fifth (into the kitchen) was via a separate wire into the connection box. I removed the kitchen extension wire as I thought that it may be splitting the incoming signal within the house and thus slowing the internet speed. This only made a marginal 1 mb/s speed improvement. I now intend to further reduce the number of sockets to three or even two. My question (eventually- sorry) is what type / spec of master socket, ordinary sockets and internal cable is best to purchase to replace the old stuff and would reducing the number of sockets to 2 rather than 3 be beneficial or not? Thanks again.
Hello Rob, you provide the best source of clear information that I have found, thank you.
>Most kind of you to say so. Thank-you.
I am trying to improve the very poor broadband speed in my father’s 1960s house. An open reach engineer making the necessary exchange alteration from ASDL to fibre says there is a 30 mb/s measured connection speed into the house. The overhead drop wire 0.9mm orange and white cables terminate into a GPO connection box which is in good condition, as are the wires. However, there are currently 5 old telephone sockets (no obvious master) currently supplied from it. Four are connected via one internal wire into the connection box while a fifth (into the kitchen) was via a separate wire into the connection box. I removed the kitchen extension wire as I thought that it may be splitting the incoming signal within the house and thus slowing the internet speed. This only made a marginal 1 mb/s speed improvement. I now intend to further reduce the number of sockets to three or even two.
>My recommendation would be to remove all of them for 48 hours, and see if the speed improves, then add back the bare minimum progressively. Ideally fit an NTE 5C (master socket with filtered faceplate). These are available on eBay/Amazon. The general guideline is, the less connected, the greater the chance of better speeds(though not guaranteed)
My question (eventually- sorry) is what type / spec of master socket, ordinary sockets and internal cable is best to purchase to replace the old stuff and would reducing the number of sockets to 2 rather than 3 be beneficial or not? Thanks again.
>As above. See my other blogs on “What type of cable”, “NTE5C”, etc. All the hardware is freely available. One thought in reducing extensions:- buy a decent (Panasonic?) DECT cordless set of phones, and plug the base straight into the voice outlet on the filtered faceplate, thus separating it at source from the broadband signal. A triple set of DECT phones will cover a medium-sized house
Dear Rob,
Thank you for making such an informative site and being so proactive in advising your clients and visitors. I recently moved into a home built in the 1920s, and noting my FTTC internet connection to be guff, called the BT Engineer over who did some basic line checks and said it was okay; having just moved in, I did not have any biscuits to appease him with and being masked up etc made the offer of tea fall flat on its face.
I’ve included in the link below images of the two junctions between my Mk 3 socket and the wires that leads to the telephone pole outside ( a twin pair white internal wire, and a black drop-wire that goes all the way to the mast, which looks to only have two 0.5mm copper cores and no other supportive wiring in it. The internal white cables don’t look like they’re made of copper (though hard to tell as they’re so thin), and the junction boxes are exposed with some corrosion evident, as you can see:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ShC12mqledlFv2PMCo819h4ET89HvB0Y?usp=sharing
My first question is, speaking purely hypothetically and out of an interest in telecommunications theory and practice, what type of drop-wire would best replace this? I’m not sure whether a type 10 or 11 would be better.
The other set of questions pertain to how the drop-wire should ideally be connected to the telephone mast circuitry, were one to be foolish enough to brave the climb up a pole. What connectors would be required?
Thanks for your kind words. The minimal advertising on this site does not cover costs, so Google and/or Facebook feedback is always welcomed.
My preference would be to re-cable from the most appropriate point and eliminate the junction boxes, which are at least 40 years old. Corrosion on contacts can make a difference to resistance, hence spped,and I have seen speed increases simply as a result of reterminating cables on ancient connectors like this. Eliminating them entirely can only be “a jolly good thing…”.
Regarding dropwire, the only difference between “10” and “11” specifications is number of pairs. Unless it is truly ancient, of a flat-grey type, I would leave well alone. It may be jointed before it gets to your NTE5 by the looks of it, the “lead-in” cable (which enters your house) appearing to be of an ancient white type. Strictly, you should not interfere with anything on the exchange side of the NTE5, of course.
Pole climbing? Don’t do it! Just for the record, many connections at the top of poles are screw-terminals. Let Openreach do a pair quality test,and leave it at that.
I hope that this helps.
Rob
Hi Rob
Been looking recently to tidy up my telephony setup at home & looking for help found your great site which is the best I’ve come across.
My BT Master Socket is in my loft with the extensions spurring from it? My Broadband is working off of one of these extension spurs.
So my thinking was moving & replacing (with new) the old Master socket so the router was plugged in to the master socket directly?
On investigating I see that the cable going into my Master socket is a think black cable containing just a pair of non colour coded copper wires, quite heavy gauge too, (a bit like the electricity ring main), no twisted pair of any colour? How should I treat this setup, or should I leave it alone as it appears to work?
I would be grateful for any advice.
Many Thanks
Hello,
This may be truly ancient dropwire, and could be around fifty years old. It is possible to joint it using a BT80A connector, readily available on-line.
Openreach would replace it as a matter of procedure if they had to come to site for something else.
It’s not the best for broadband speeds, but will still work, and you can still move your socket.
I hope that this helps.
Rob
Hi
I think BT treated this cable like an underground cable. Orange & White being the first pair and Green & Black being the last pair. As it’s only 4 wires you only have two pairs and the intermediate colours are obviously not used.
No idea why.
Bob
Honoured to have you contribute, Mr Freshwater! I’ve admired your work for many years. Thanks for the comment.
What a great resource this site is. I have a dead and unwanted drop wire. Having had full fibre from a local supplier for a while now, I’d like to get rid of this drop wire back to the pole, Normally you’d speak to your phone service provider with regard to all issues with your service but I no longer have one. I can’t see anything on the Openreach site regarding permanent removal of a drop wire. Can you offer any advice?
Thanks for your kind words, which are appreciated.
We would never recommend interference with the Openreach network, of course.
However, we have known of unwanted dropwire mysteriously falling down in unknown circumstances, resulting in it having to be coiled in a loop around the pole, out of reach (three metres above the ground, cable-tied around the pole). In these cases, it can be reported via the Openreach website, and an Openreach operative might attend to remove it correctly.
I hope that this helps.
Hi HELP needed I’m struggling to sort this! I have unearthed a spaghetti coil of doom hidden behind some skirting which is now no longer working they were just twisted together…. 2 lots of cable and 2 different sets of colours!
1 set normal 6 colours
1 set of 4 blue,green,orange and brown
Which wires are supposed to be together?
Hello,
Take a look at one of my blogs…
https://telecomgreen.co.uk/home-phone-repair/phone-socket-wiring-bt-master-socket-the-orange-and-white-and-other-mysteries/
…there may be some answers there.
Apologies, but not much time to give an individual response at the moment.
Hi Rob
I was looking to re route my drop line down the side of my house and not the present side and through the front porch window. When I went up to inspect the drop wire it appears to be just a black and a red wire, fairly thick – I know this as there is a connector (like an old version of the jelly connectors ) that split with each wire connected.
Also where this wire comes into the house the first junc box looks like a mini transformer which has baffled me.
Should the drop wire be completely replaced?
Many thanks
Hello,
This sounds like drop wire and termination that pre-dates even the 1960s flat grey dropwire. I have encountered this once or twice in over ten years of residential work. Yours could date from the 1950s.
You may be able to get Openreach to replace this free-of-chare (they now seem to do this with grey dropwire), but you will have to approach them via your service provider, who may not understand your requirement.
Rob.
Thanks Rob
I did plan to run a new line from the point just after the place where this line is attached to the house – will these 2 wires (red/Black) work with jellys to connect to new BT drop wire ( I’ve obtained some!). My concern is the transformer looking box I mentioned previously that connects the Red/Black – this then leads to the other type of connection box a previous person had sent a photo to you for.
Thank you – your first response was helpful as I could not find anything about the Red/Black wire.
Cheers
From memory, “jellys” will work. They work with 0.9mm core cable (used in some drop wire and underground cables), so should just about do it. Make sure that the cable cores are not tarnished, and are bright and shiny. This makes a difference.
I can’t recall what the transformer-looking thingie does – it’s possibly a noise filter or surge arrestor. Simply remove and replace with a master socket or 78A jointing box.
Top Man Thanks Rob
I did manage to find a photo of the box – its was Block Terminal with Protectors so I think your guess of 1950’s was correct.
Last question – would it matter which set of colours I connect to the Red or Black and also which way round – I presume this was the original single set drop line. Just thinking of the A / B bit as I have a new Master Socket to use?
Thanks again
Yes, I recall it having some of large prongs to hold a fuse.
Polarity is not vitally important these days- I encounter both types across the Openreach network. A bit of rummaging at https://telephonesuk.org.uk/wiring-info/ might find out which is the A and B of the black and red.
Please note that your ancient dropwire won’t fit the tool-less latch-type connections on the very latest NTE5C – you will need to joint some 0.5mm core CW1308 cable onto the red/back in order for it to work.
Meanwhile, can I ask a favour, please? I am trying to get my Google Review count up to 100, and I’m currently in the late-‘eighties. If you are able to provide some words, that would be much appreciated. Rob.
Thanks Rob
My plan is to connect the CW1308 cable just after the eye loop up by the guttering using a dexgreen box and run this down the side pf the house and into a Mk4 master Socket.
We def support your google reviews, no problem
Thanks
hi Rob, really enjoyed the article, very informative and great that you have done this.
Ive got a situation that you might be able to help with. I need to move the incoming drop cable from the pole to the house. Basically it enters the side of the house at the front and i need to move it to the side of the house at the rear.
However it is also currently in the way of building work and scaffold. What are your thoughts on disconnecting it at the external joint, removing it from the tensioner and coiling it up and looping it over the scaffold until the work is done. Then enter it in via the new wall in the new location and re-connect?
The cost to have this done by openreach seems crazy and not exactly viable.
Thanks for your kind words.
Strictly, the work you describe should be done by Openreach only. However, I have seen this done effectively, and it’s not beyond the skill of an ex-BT engineer. There are plenty of these, now working for themselves, across the UK. Let me have your postcode by email, and I’ll see who is nearest.
Rob.
cheers Rob. I have personally “extended” the cable myself previously under the floorboards when i relocated the master socket. Although not strictly legal it was nothing more complicated than changing a plug. If you cant see any real hazards in the above id likely do it myself. I have emailed you anyways my details, thanks for taking the time to respond thats really helpful.
Thanks for the email. If you are confident with the work, then be encouraged that it isn’t that hard, and everything you need is available on-line. Rob.
Hi Rob,
I was looking for some External 4 pair overhead cable, to replace a corroded section into the house, but the examples I have found online don’t have the steel support wires, don’t all overhead cables have them ?.
Trevor
(I replied to Trevor by email. Googling “dropwire 11” should take an enquirer to the right stuff. Dropwire is not like ordinary external cable, and most external cable doesn’t have the necessary self-supporting span wires.)
I’m also looking at this and found some ‘Dropwire 14’ listed as 4 pair with 3 span cores. When i looked up Dropwire 11 on FS cables they say it only has 1 pair. And that 4 pair is ‘dropwire 15’!
I’ve also read that external ethernet cable should be shielded but dropwire doesn’t come with a shield does it!
On another note, is it ok to use dropwire 14/15 instead of 10? I’m thinking one 100m reel is easier to work with then several shorter ones.
There’s so many varieties of cable out there, thanks for your clear advice.
I’m also looking at this and found some ‘Dropwire 14’ listed as 4 pair with 3 span cores. When i looked up Dropwire 11 on FS cables they say it only has 1 pair. And that 4 pair is ‘dropwire 15’!
>Yes, the progression of numbers to specification seems illogical.
I’ve also read that external ethernet cable should be shielded but dropwire doesn’t come with a shield does it!
>I’m not sure where the idea of shielding comes from – I have installed miles of standard-spec. (unshielded) external cat 5e with no problems at all. xDSL travels considerable distance on unshielded cables on its way from the exchange, again woith no problems. Incorrectly-earthed shielded cable can act like a long aerial, hence can cause the very problem (interference) that it seeks to protect against.
On another note, is it ok to use dropwire 14/15 instead of 10? I’m thinking one 100m reel is easier to work with then several shorter ones.
>Why do you need the extra pairs? Dropwire 10 can be bought by the length on-line (if I recall correctly).
There’s so many varieties of cable out there, thanks for your clear advice.
>Thanks for your kind words.
Your article is a good start for my query so thanks for publishing it. I need to relocate a modern OpenReach “Master Socket” by approx 3-6 feet.
Inside the master socket, the dropwire has 2 1/2 inches of the sheathed outer which has been finished neatly with a black end cover from which an orange/white pair continue for about 7 inches to the B and A terminal behind the faceplate. Any green and black wires must have been cut back to the end of the outer sheathing. I could really do with the extension to be as unobtrusive as possible (just from an aesthetic perspective) I see no reason not to extend with a joint from the ends of the orange and white pair using 0.5mm wiring (Preferably orange/white in a a black outer if I can get it.) I shall investigate low profile connectors but would welcome any suggestions.
Just thought it worth asking in case I was missing something non-obvious.
Facebook likes already done. Cheers!
Hello,
Your analysis is refreshingly precise! Thanks for the Facebook “like”.
Dropwire 10 (or 11) can be bought via eBay. If you can’t find any, let me know. I have plenty.
Likewise, the Dexgreen or Scotch brand enclosures, designed to enclose jelly-crimp connectors are all available on-line. Lots of Openreach components seem to fall out of the back of their vans. They are genuine, not cheap and cheerful copies.
Rob.